From Art to Aid: Eric von Haynes on Creating Community Connections

Ep 64: From Art to Aid: Eric von Haynes on Creating Community Connections
Summary of the episode:
Today’s conversation centers on the critical distinction between mutual aid and charity, as articulated by our guest, Eric von Haynes. Eric emphasizes that mutual aid is rooted in reciprocity and community connection, contrasting it with the more transactional nature of charity. He shares insights from his extensive work in mutual aid initiatives, including the Love Fridge project, which provides community fridges stocked with food and resources, emphasizing the importance of anonymity and equality in these efforts. Throughout the discussion, Eric reflects on his artistic journey, particularly his passion for printmaking as a means of disseminating ideas and fostering community dialogue. With a focus on the values of horizontality and support, this episode encourages listeners to think critically about how we share resources and uplift one another in our communities.
Takeaways:
- Mutual aid emphasizes reciprocity and community support, distinguishing it from mere charity.
- The Love Fridge initiative in Chicago showcases how community fridges can foster mutual aid.
- Eric advocates for slow media, valuing thoughtful engagement over rapid consumption.
- Art practices, like printmaking, provide a platform for voices that challenge societal norms.
Chapters:
• 00:01 - Introduction to Nosy AF Conversations
• 03:10 - Understanding Mutual Aid and Reciprocity
• 12:04 - The Concept of Mutual Aid
• 17:46 - Community Fridges and Mutual Aid
• 26:42 - Community Engagement and Food Rescue
• 36:52 - Understanding Mutual Aid vs Charity
• 40:45 - Values and Practices in Community Engagement
• 46:25 - The Importance of Print in Art and Society
• 55:13 - The Philosophy of Anarchy and Community
• 01:01:40 - The Importance of Slow Media
• 01:06:45 - The Legacy of Robert Blackburn
About Eric:
Eric Von Haynes operates under the imprint Flatlands Press and co-founded Love Fridge Chicago, a mutual aid initiative supporting community fridges. He is a visiting senior instructor of graphic design at the UIC School of Design and currently serves as the president of the Chicago Printers Guild.
Resources mentioned in this episode
*link to book is with an affiliate link*
Btw Happy Anniversary, Love Fridge! 💕🎊
Chicagoland Food Sovereignty Coalition
Connect with Eric
Instagram: @Flatlands_press
Connect with Stephanie
Instagram: @stephaniegraham
Email: stephanie@missgraham.com
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Episode Credits:
Produced, Hosted, and Edited by Me, Stephanie (teaching myself audio editing!)
Lyrics: Queen Lex
Instrumental: Freddie Bam Fam
00:00 - None
00:01 - Introduction to Nosy AF Conversations
03:10 - Understanding Mutual Aid and Reciprocity
12:04 - The Concept of Mutual Aid
17:46 - Community Fridges and Mutual Aid
26:42 - Community Engagement and Food Rescue
36:52 - Understanding Mutual Aid vs Charity
40:45 - Values and Practices in Community Engagement
46:25 - The Importance of Print in Art and Society
55:13 - The Philosophy of Anarchy and Community
01:01:40 - The Importance of Slow Media
01:06:45 - The Legacy of Robert Blackburn
Hey, friends.
Stephanie
Welcome.
Stephanie
And welcome back to another episode of Nosy AF conversations about art, activism and social change.
Stephanie
I am Stephanie, your host and your friend.
Stephanie
And y'all, happy holidays.
Stephanie
It is really.
Stephanie
The holidays are up and at em out here.
Stephanie
You know, they have taken off and we are zooming into a new year.
Stephanie
And I sort of love it.
Stephanie
I love seeing all the lights, all the colors.
Stephanie
It really makes me happy.
Stephanie
And you know who else makes me happy?
Stephanie
Our guest today.
Stephanie
He too is filled with lots of light and color, and that is the no other than Mr.
Stephanie
Eric von Haynes.
Stephanie
And Eric is truly a kind and committed, focused guy.
Stephanie
He operates under the imprint Flatlands Press and co founded Love for Chicago, which is a mutual aid initiative supporting community fridges.
Stephanie
He is a visiting senior instructor of graphic design at the UIC School of Design and currently serves as the president of the Chicago Printers Guild.
Stephanie
I'm really happy for you all to meet Eric today because I've had a pressing question about mutual aid that I get into right off the bat.
Stephanie
So we talk about mutual aid, we talk about love fridge, and then we talk about Eric's artwork, his lovely, lovely artwork.
Stephanie
And so listen, let's start the theme song and let's get into this conversation.
Stephanie
I am so happy you're here.
Stephanie
Vision of a star with a mission in the cause what you doing?
Eric
How you doing?
Stephanie
What you're doing and who you are Flex yourself and press yourself Check yourself don't wreck yourself if you know me then you know that I be knowing what's up.
Stephanie
Hey, Stephanie.
Stephanie
Graham is nosy as Eric.
Stephanie
Welcome to Nosy af.
Stephanie
Thank you so much for being here.
Eric
Thanks for having me.
Stephanie
Yes.
Stephanie
So I think the one thing question I've been dying to ask you is with all of your, you know, you're so like, generosity is like a big part of your practice, I believe.
Stephanie
And I'm wondering what's the difference between begging and mutually.
Stephanie
I asked because I see on social media people, the trend.
Stephanie
The trend will ask for stuff and then they'll be like, hey, I need to send my daughter to camp and I need $600 to do it.
Stephanie
And then people be like, dang, didn't you just ask for like money like last time?
Stephanie
Like, do kids need to go to, you know, like it is whole thing?
Stephanie
And then I remember seeing specifically someone be like, they don't understand mutual aid.
Stephanie
I'm like, well, now I don't understand it.
Eric
Well, first off, as the mutual aid principles I practice start with reciprocity.
Eric
So if you're asking for something the idea that there's a, it's the term mutual is there for a reason.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Like mutual meaning there's some give and take.
Eric
So between you and me, I'm not a big fan of this social media.
Eric
It's really the kids, it's really the youth that have adopted the idea of mutual aid in the, in the digital for, in the digital realm around asking for funds for different things.
Eric
And I don't, I'm not, I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for help, but there's a lack of reciprocity and there's a lack of connection and full disclosure.
Eric
I, I feel like it's charity.
Eric
What they're actually practicing at best would be charity or just fundraising.
Eric
But mutual aid sounds so much better, right?
Eric
When you're asking someone to give you funds than fundraising.
Eric
Right.
Eric
But mutual aid is really about reciprocity.
Eric
So the like, if I, where I come from, my family background, mutual aid is just natural.
Eric
It's a human thing.
Eric
We just live in a capitalist dog eat dog, step on the next person's back neck to get something world right now.
Eric
So people have lost, I think sometimes have lost, lost the plot.
Eric
But none of us would be here without the support and help of others.
Eric
Like none of us.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
And that's what mutual aid is.
Eric
That's what mutual aid is.
Eric
It's the, it's the practice of helping and offering resources when you can to those that need.
Eric
But it's also open.
Eric
It's supposed to also be a space of reciprocity.
Eric
So folks should also be offering something in return.
Eric
And that doesn't mean it has to be of equal value.
Eric
I'm not talking about a capitalist abstract labor.
Eric
But like if I were to ask you for some funds for my daughter, I might be like, I can't.
Eric
I, I need some help with my daughter doing A, B or C.
Eric
But I make cookies, but I do this, but I do that.
Eric
It's, it's like, like ain't nobody out here.
Eric
The folks that are going to, the folks that are giving you the funds need, they fund, right?
Eric
So they could use that money too.
Eric
Otherwise you just go, go get a grant, go, go to some, some government space.
Eric
When you're talking about community folk, you should be aware that those folks are taken from their own resources to help you.
Eric
And rightfully so.
Eric
You should be wanting to do what?
Eric
Balance those scales in any way possible.
Eric
Right?
Eric
Like even a thank you letter.
Eric
I mean, it doesn't have to be.
Eric
I'm not trying to say you're balancing the scales with, I'm going to come cut your grass because he gave me $50.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
But I've always had a problem with the online like face with some kind of Venmo thing.
Eric
Hey, I need this.
Eric
Here's my little story.
Eric
Now give me some money.
Eric
And that's just because I'm old school and I'm like, I don't know.
Eric
If I don't know you, how am I don't know you?
Eric
How do I know that any of this is like a reality, number one?
Eric
Number two, where's the reciprocity come in at?
Eric
And to each their own.
Eric
If you got the funds, you can help folks do that.
Eric
But if you're actually coming out of pocket because you think some, it's urgent.
Eric
It's urgent for somebody, maybe think about that, Think about what you're doing and how you're doing it.
Eric
Right.
Eric
So, you know, I, I, I just believe in mutual aid being, being in some capacity, being there, being some connection there.
Eric
So just asking someone, just asking me for money is not mutual aid?
Eric
It's just fundraising, in my opinion.
Eric
But yes.
Stephanie
So, yeah, that's really helpful to not get it twisted because it really was, I was really getting confused.
Eric
Yeah, it's just buzz, It's a buzz.
Eric
It's on, but it's on, it's on trend now.
Eric
Like, there's, there was a book created by Dean Spade that was released during the, during the pandemic that helped spawn, decide like the, like some kind of dogmatic or philosophy around mutual aid.
Eric
I've read it several times.
Eric
I've taught, I've like offered it as instruction manuals to students when I work with students on community centered design.
Eric
I wouldn't say I disagree with Dean Spade's perspective, but they didn't invent it and it's not.
Eric
And my mutual aid principles come from my background, where I grew up, the way I grew up.
Eric
If you had extra vegetables from the yard, we offered them to our neighbors.
Eric
If you knew somebody might need them, vegetables for sure we offered to them first.
Eric
Right.
Eric
But then, or for another example, taking out scarcity.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Because it's not always about scarcity.
Eric
That's something too that I think is like a misgiving.
Eric
We grow tons of pollinators in my garden.
Eric
My partner Risa will like overgrow, like overseed and so this season we offered fully grown plants and trees to folks that just came and got them, if they just came and got them.
Eric
Right.
Eric
That's, that's a form of mutual aid.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Like, there's a rest.
Eric
Like, and it's not when I.
Eric
And the reciprocity is not just, hey, I got some tomatoes, or I got this, hey, you want some of that?
Eric
But also, we're also offering more pollinators to the environment, which, in what.
Eric
It helps all of us.
Eric
You see what I'm saying?
Eric
So that's a.
Eric
That's another way of thinking about how something.
Eric
The reciprocity angle, it doesn't have to be one to one.
Eric
I mean, I don't know, we might talk about this later, but the love fridge work.
Eric
I do.
Eric
I'm not looking for someone to, to meet me or to balance the scales with me as an individual.
Eric
It's.
Eric
I'm hoping that they pay it forward is the concept.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Like, I have the time, I have the energy.
Eric
I can do this.
Eric
So therefore, I hope that this helps someone else pay it forward.
Eric
Hope this helps someone else not only have a full belly, but understand that someone cares about them without having to know them, without them having to tell their whole story.
Eric
And I don't want to go on a diatribe, but that's what I really dislike about the mutual aid digital realm is because it plays off of victimization and the idea that you have to tell someone all this bad stuff to get some money.
Eric
Like, you can be just.
Eric
You can just need some money.
Eric
Why?
Eric
Like you.
Eric
We all need money.
Eric
If you ain't got no money, you need some money.
Eric
Why is it.
Eric
It's like this litmus test.
Eric
Well, I need some money because my foot broke.
Eric
You needed money before that.
Eric
That's why you need money now.
Eric
But now you talk about you need money.
Eric
So it's like this.
Eric
It's this twisted game of almost stay away from some trigger words, but it just feels like the monetization of victim.
Eric
Victimization in a way.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
And I about.
Eric
I don't.
Eric
I don't really.
Eric
I think it's sad that anyone feel like they have to go online and tell their life story to get a couple of dollars.
Eric
Yeah, like that, that, that alone, that alone is just like off.
Stephanie
So, yeah, it gives me.
Stephanie
And I don't know, like, it just, it gives me like secondhand embarrassment.
Stephanie
But I, I will help if I can.
Stephanie
But I feel like I've seen folks do it, like, over and over again and they always are doing in the sense of like in the game of mutual aid.
Stephanie
And I remember specifically I was at a photographer's event and there was a person there who was talking about how they needed money for a specific lens and how they were.
Stephanie
They were gonna.
Stephanie
Well, yeah, they were gonna put something out, you know, to try to, like, if, like, mutually, like, hey, if I have this lens, I'll be able to do this.
Stephanie
And my friend Danielle was with me, and she's a pretty successful wedding photographer, and she's like, oh, I can show you with your lens, like, how you can do portraits, you know, like, if you want.
Stephanie
Like, I'll be happy to.
Stephanie
Like, you don't have to do that.
Stephanie
And you could do it right away.
Stephanie
And, like, you know, she had, like, this cool little, like, prism out.
Stephanie
And.
Stephanie
And the person's like, okay, yeah.
Stephanie
But then they still, like, posted.
Stephanie
They still, like, went and posted about their need with their story and the need for this lens.
Stephanie
And I was just like, now this is, like a huge wedding photographer that's down to help you and educate you.
Eric
That's mutual aid, and that is mutual aid skill sharing.
Eric
That is part of mutual aid is.
Eric
It's not.
Eric
It's not just resources.
Eric
That's what I'm saying.
Eric
It's a pr.
Eric
Mutual aid is just a principle, a practice.
Eric
It's just a practice of reciprocity and being.
Eric
Being accountable for the fact that you're not alone in the universe.
Eric
It's not comp.
Eric
So, yeah, you can ask for a camera lens, but that's fundraising to me.
Eric
See, I just think that's a.
Eric
To me, that's a.
Eric
It's just.
Eric
It sounds better to say nowadays, this is.
Eric
This term is popular.
Eric
I'm in the, you know, in the spirit of mutual aid, give me some money.
Eric
Like, I mean, we could all.
Eric
We all.
Eric
I mean, we could all do that.
Eric
But it's.
Eric
It's.
Eric
To me, it obfuscates what mutual aid is really about.
Eric
And the books are open.
Eric
Like, anyone that's listening to the show, you could find Dean Spade's book on mutual aid.
Eric
You can find mutual aid practitioner information online.
Eric
It's pretty easy to find.
Eric
And when you read this stuff, I think most people be like, it's common sense.
Eric
It's really common sense.
Eric
It really.
Eric
It really is.
Eric
So I think all of that is just like word salad.
Eric
It's just like, this is this.
Eric
It sounds better than saying, I'm fundraising so I can have better equipment, so I can make more money.
Eric
Right?
Eric
So.
Stephanie
Which is good to me.
Stephanie
That sounds good to me.
Eric
Because you don't value.
Eric
Because you're not adding.
Eric
You're not.
Eric
Yeah, it's just, like, value statements.
Eric
Right?
Eric
It's like, if I ask for this in this particular way, it's value different than this.
Eric
And I just think it has to do with being like, because we, in this western society we live in, there's this like have and have nots and then there's this like winner and loser thing.
Eric
So I feel like a lot of people are disingenuous with how much they actually want to be part of community because that's what mutual aid is too.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Like, so they should be asking their community or the community that they're part of and they should also be offering something like it should be some alignment there and then, and then those requests are more easily fulfilled on both ends.
Eric
Right.
Eric
So like if you're just random, which is why I don't like the digital realm asking for funds just randomly online.
Eric
I don't want to get too dark, but I just, I believe there's a grift there.
Eric
Honestly, I believe there's a grift there as well.
Eric
Because there's like certain things that people do and I usually like the ones I usually see.
Eric
They're almost predominantly women or femme seeking folk which goes into our misandry aspects of our culture.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Men get to get, get up, go get a job, like you know, like it's just, and it's usually.
Eric
And then there's like these other tropes around surgeries and things like that that I see regularly and I think those things are important in, in, in communities other.
Eric
But I think it's become so widespread that I, I, I would not be surprised there's a grift there.
Eric
So I think also if it's mutual aid, there should be receipts.
Eric
All the mutual aid work I do, there's receipts for every dime.
Eric
Every penny is accountable.
Eric
So if it's mutual aid, it should be transparent and that will that alleviate, that alleviates the aspect of grif.
Eric
Right.
Eric
So if you've given somebody some bread at some point there should be some, the reciprocity should at minimum be showing you, hi, I achieved that goal.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
You know, if it's food and stuff, I mean to each day own, I don't need nobody giving me receipts for every dollar they spend on a dot on, on some bread.
Eric
But we're talking, if we're talking, you know, I think it's context specific but for sure things will really let you know.
Eric
Those are really good signs that folks are trying to be in community when it's not one way that's, that's a good way of showing reciprocity.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Even if it's just open communication.
Eric
I'm not Asking to split a vein.
Eric
But like, if somebody's get.
Eric
If you got people giving you a ton of money, they want to know that they worked out too, right?
Eric
At min.
Stephanie
Yeah, that's real.
Stephanie
That's real.
Stephanie
Yeah, that's real.
Eric
So that's a good way of like approaching it.
Eric
And like anyone out there trying to do mutual aid, be sure that you're just as eager once you got.
Eric
You achieved your goal of communicating that and being like, it's a good sign that you're actually trying to be in community.
Eric
Right?
Stephanie
Yeah, no, that's, that's very helpful.
Stephanie
Thank you for breaking all that down.
Stephanie
I see clearly now.
Stephanie
You know, so you did mention Love Fridge.
Stephanie
Love Fridge Chicago, which is an organization that you helped co found, which is really cool.
Stephanie
It's Community Fridges.
Stephanie
So to anyone who doesn't know and let me know if I'm explaining it wrong, but basically it's fridges that folks stock with food for folks that need food.
Stephanie
It's like, you give food, you take food, you give food, you take food.
Stephanie
And so Love Fridge is pretty cool because they also have resources from other organizations to stock fridge food.
Stephanie
But then it's also a place where I know I've brought food to fridges, you know, like after I finished a commercial, you know, like things left over.
Stephanie
Basically.
Stephanie
It's like perfectly good food that can go there.
Stephanie
These are particularly all over Chicago, but you can find like the whole community fridge space all over the country, right?
Eric
Yes.
Eric
There's a national movement around community fridges.
Eric
The Chicago Love Fridge program.
Eric
We, we, we're.
Eric
We, we're.
Eric
We have particular things that we really focused on and we practice mutual aid.
Eric
I don't, I wouldn't say all community fridges or like networks are mutual aid practitioners.
Eric
And that's not to say that they're not resource providers, but we really do.
Eric
I spend a lot of time working within the community in these spaces.
Eric
To the fridges are conduits or amplification of work being done.
Eric
There's a lot of work that's done out like invisible.
Eric
And they should remain invisible for a lot of reasons, like our community agreement.
Eric
We do not record or leverage.
Eric
We don't record people.
Eric
We don't document those in need.
Eric
And a big part of the reason why I invested in this when we to begin with is because of the anonymity that it offers those that need resources.
Eric
No one needs to know what you need.
Eric
It ain't nobody's business.
Eric
It ain't nobody's business what you give in either this isn't a.
Eric
This isn't a influencer thing.
Eric
You know what I'm saying?
Eric
Like, so.
Eric
So it doesn't matter how much I do.
Eric
It doesn't matter how long I've been doing it.
Eric
Everyone is equal.
Eric
This is.
Eric
I mean, I practice horizontality, which is part of our, the Love Fridge principles as well.
Eric
That means everyone is equal.
Eric
Do I have a lot of responsibilities right now?
Eric
Yeah, but I, But I'm.
Eric
But everyone is equal.
Eric
It's not a.
Eric
There is no hierarchy.
Eric
And so, yes, I am a co founder.
Eric
We call ourselves Spokes.
Eric
There is no leader, there is no beginning, there is no middle, and there's no end.
Eric
And I'm.
Eric
That's why I'm invested in this.
Eric
But yes, there's fridges all across Chicago.
Eric
We're going.
Eric
This is our fourth year anniversary this year.
Stephanie
Happy anniversary.
Eric
And you know, it's become a kind of a staple here in Chicago as far as like a.
Eric
A re.
Eric
A place to offer resources.
Eric
We're also part of a group that we were one of the founding members.
Eric
Like, we're all.
Eric
It's when I say these things, when I say we're.
Eric
We're members, it's.
Eric
We're equal.
Eric
I just.
Eric
My main focus as a spoke, like on a wheel is I'm a spoke for the Love Fridge, but I'm also a member of the Chicago Foodland Sovereignty Coalition, which is 30 plus mutual aid groups across Chicago.
Eric
We work for grants and we work with dcffd, which is the Chicago Greater Food Depository.
Eric
We work with black farmers, bipoc farmers, urban growings, collectives, and all across Chicagoland to get excess resources and to get those into spaces.
Eric
So we specifically work to get resources into community fridges located across Chicago.
Eric
The Chicago Food Land Coalition members are vast.
Eric
And some, a lot of folks do direct aid.
Eric
Some folks get like.
Eric
Some folks just do food rescue.
Eric
Some folks are like, food not bombs is like Rogers Park.
Eric
Food Not Bombs is a member, McKinley Park.
Eric
There's like 30 plus.
Eric
And what this offered us, we.
Eric
And we keep inviting more mutual aid groups in because the idea is we're all in solidarity.
Eric
As long as we're in solidarity, we're working towards the same goal.
Eric
And this allows us to not step on each other's toes, but also to try to illuminate some of the L lines or pathways to getting resources and the act and the access to resources we already have.
Eric
Right.
Eric
So people weren't trying to like crew like rebuild the wheel that's already there.
Eric
Like just jump on the jump on the jump, on the, on the bike.
Eric
We're already moving.
Eric
Get on the bike.
Eric
And you know, if.
Eric
So I'm really happy about that.
Eric
The coalition.
Eric
I'll keep this short, but early on we did a lot of research.
Eric
I think like a year of research of different ways of creating hubs.
Eric
We had all kinds of ideas.
Eric
There was refrigerated trucks that would be in different areas of Chicago.
Eric
At one point we were thinking about leasing storefronts because they were all closing of grocery stores in different areas.
Eric
And we finally came up on a solution that we would needed not only refrigerated space, but a hut, but spaces that were large enough that we could also break food down, do composting and all those things.
Eric
So we now lease.
Eric
We have like two leases.
Eric
I won't disclose everything just because we just don't.
Eric
But we have two spaces on the north.
Eric
We have one space on the north side and one in Pilsen that allows us to do long term storage and like freezer refrigerated storage and dry storage for resources that we get.
Eric
And like I said, the greater food depository is one of our, our com or one of our partners or in.
Eric
In one sense they don't give us any funds but like excess stuff they might have, like they won't take damaged items.
Eric
So like if a, a pallet of water is broken, if the pallet was broken, not the water, but the pallet was broken, it's no longer mint condition.
Eric
And so we get items like that.
Eric
We get things that like.
Eric
Because they don't want to even deal with it if it's not per.
Eric
Like so we get, you know, you, it's.
Eric
Yeah, they got so much.
Stephanie
Right?
Eric
I'm keep this.
Eric
But I'm gonna say they got so much that they could be like, ah, that one's got a blemish.
Eric
You know what I'm saying?
Eric
Yeah, y'all want that one.
Eric
And so we'll take.
Eric
We.
Eric
So we get surplus from them as well as other folk and put this stuff in these hubs and then it's like divided amongst those that are, that are situated in those hubs and dispersed amongst the community.
Eric
Wow, that was a mouthful.
Eric
So.
Eric
But yeah, it's important to know that there's a lot of.
Eric
It's.
Eric
It's every day, this is happening every day, like seven days a week every day.
Eric
There's people like that have, that have been trained to use trucks and we do food rescue call outs.
Eric
Anyone that's listening to this call, if you're interested, you can email us at the Love for Chicago or you can reach out to Chicagoland Food Sovereignty Coalition to find out more information.
Eric
There's a whole onboarding process.
Eric
This isn't honeycomb or something where you can just pop in and pop out.
Eric
There's a lot of, there's a lot that.
Eric
There's an onboarding process that, that, that's really important to us.
Eric
But if you're interested, there's always food rescue opportunities that are coming up all the time because we have relationships with like grocery stores and like all across Chicago and they'll just randomly hit us up.
Eric
And so we're constantly, we're constant.
Eric
I mean, so people are constantly like running all over the place.
Eric
And then there's spots we have that are consistent.
Eric
There are spots that we have consistent donations.
Eric
I'll say.
Eric
But then there's other spots that might be more random.
Eric
Like just because we're like to give a context, we have our first solar fridge we built.
Eric
It's going on two and a half years now in Inglewood with.
Eric
It's in a garden called Libations to the Ancestors, which is a family run community garden by Taryn.
Eric
I can't remember Taryn's last name, but they were.
Eric
It's a family.
Eric
I can't remember their name right.
Eric
Their last name right now.
Eric
But it's a family garden that they do mentorship on like land appreciation and stuff.
Eric
But it's also part of a larger thing that Taryn runs called Getting Grown Collective, which you might be familiar with.
Stephanie
Okay.
Stephanie
I think I've heard of it.
Eric
And they're also part of that.
Eric
They're, they're connected with a lot of the greening of Inglewood and like AUA and programs like that that are basically around like land ownership and like stewarding of like spaces and you know, south on the south side and west sides of Chicago.
Eric
Yeah, all across Chicago, to be honest.
Eric
But those are the kind of relationships that we like to foster or to like amplify.
Eric
So the fridge we have there for is our first solar fridge.
Eric
And the neighborhood it's in allows us to.
Eric
We have individuals that live in a neighborhood that we've enlisted to do food rescue.
Eric
So we're not asking folks from other neighborhoods to come into their neighborhood.
Eric
Even though we still go there.
Eric
We want, we really want to be hyper local as possible.
Eric
So in a lot of these spots, people want to help, but they might not have extra bread to drive all across Chicago because that's costly.
Eric
Right?
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
So we compensate.
Eric
So what we've Done is I.
Eric
Once we.
Eric
These folks have been enlisted by the host or the community partner and we have.
Eric
There's a good relationship there.
Eric
Like I said, we will pay stipends.
Eric
We will pay them for their time.
Eric
So.
Eric
And then we've been doing that now for a couple of years.
Eric
And I really like it because it's quiet, but it allows people to be engaged and their time is compensated.
Eric
And it also allows us to have a voice in that community that's based on the folks that actually pay rent or own homes in that neighborhood and have a vested interest in that neighborhood, not in a photo op.
Eric
So.
Eric
Yeah, that's really important.
Eric
Well, you know what I'm saying.
Stephanie
It's like, I know.
Stephanie
I like.
Eric
It's real out here, though.
Stephanie
I like that you, you know, like, there's like this real moving silence, like, principle in you, you know, just to like.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Stephanie
Like, it's not about.
Stephanie
It's not about posts and, you know, showing people what you're doing.
Stephanie
It's about action.
Stephanie
And it makes me think, like, I should probably.
Stephanie
Even though I've said, like all this time, like, oh, yeah, I need to volunteer with love for.
Stephanie
I should probably do it more because, like, I have a dream to have a grocery store one day.
Stephanie
Like, these could be my mini little grocery stores, you know, It's a lot of work, though.
Eric
It's a lot of.
Eric
It's a lot of human interaction.
Eric
So our onboarding process we have, it's.
Eric
We spend a lot of time, like, fermenting, like, sop.
Eric
We do a lot around this because it's like, it's a big deal, like putting a site down.
Eric
It's a big deal.
Eric
Like, you need.
Eric
You really need to be aware that the getting food is not the hard part.
Eric
The hard part is maintaining a site.
Eric
And maintaining a site can take a lot of different things.
Eric
Like, a lot of different.
Eric
Like one of the issues.
Eric
This is anecdotal.
Eric
Every site is different.
Eric
But there was this site we had.
Eric
It was up for quite a while on south on South Prairie, which is downtown.
Eric
This food photographer is really great guy named Dan Goldberg wanted to have a site because he does food photography and he often has surplus food.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
So he was.
Eric
He was handing it out to houseless folk, which is.
Eric
Can be an issue too.
Eric
When you just bring a resource to an area.
Eric
There's.
Eric
There's.
Eric
There's things around that you might think you're doing good, but you might actually be doing more harm by just like taking a bunch of resources somewhere and then being like, Here, like it can.
Eric
It can actually create more issues.
Eric
So we, like, Dan had surplus food, so we built a site there.
Eric
He actually did most of it because he had this.
Eric
He has a studio there.
Eric
But the first week or so he was hitting me up and he's like, e, nobody's coming.
Eric
They call it this.
Eric
It's packed to the gills and I don't see anybody yet.
Eric
I'm like, well, we just put it on the mint.
Eric
We just put it on the map.
Eric
We just did an Instagram post.
Eric
It just went in our newsletter.
Eric
Give it a couple of days.
Eric
Two weeks tops.
Eric
Like two weeks tops.
Eric
And you will never have that problem again.
Eric
Trust, trust me, within like four days.
Eric
He was like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Eric
Weren't lying.
Eric
Like, once a site is there and people know it's there and there's resources offered, those resources will.
Eric
They will.
Eric
They will move.
Eric
Yeah.
Eric
No matter.
Eric
And this is a pretty affluent area of Chicago that the studio was in, but it also had folks that were in.
Eric
What do you call it in housing.
Eric
There's a term, but I can't.
Eric
It just escapes me right now.
Eric
So you had.
Eric
Not shelters, just like.
Eric
I guess it's like rent control.
Eric
There's a term for it.
Eric
I can't remember probably.
Eric
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric
It's just.
Eric
Yeah.
Eric
It's just obvious that they're there in a housing complex and then they're surrounded.
Eric
Like, you got folks that are.
Eric
Like you got folks that own million dollar homes and houses and then you got folks that evidently don't.
Eric
Yeah.
Eric
In the same.
Eric
In the same area.
Eric
Which eventually caused an issue.
Eric
The site was up for quite a while.
Eric
And I like to talk about issues, but I think this is important just to mention that the host really wanted to keep the site, but some of his neighbors.
Eric
It just wasn't conducive to what we like to do, which is the community has to be supportive of a site.
Eric
We don't just.
Eric
It's not a vending machine.
Eric
So if there's not that.
Eric
If that energy is not there, we don't want.
Eric
We don't want to support a site that's got.
Eric
That's putting people at risk of like that kind of energy or much less this program, the larger program.
Eric
We don't.
Eric
We barely get any press.
Eric
Unless they want to talk about Thanksgiving or some corny something like that.
Eric
You can read a million articles.
Eric
They never get past C.
Eric
It always goes abc.
Eric
And then they stop maybe a couple of times.
Eric
D and E.
Eric
I've had a few folks reach out because fridges Spend less energy than a cell phone in a day.
Eric
There's actually like the waste, like the, the amount of environmental waste.
Eric
We're actually helping with environmental waste in multiple factors.
Eric
By offering food to folks that would go into a landfill.
Eric
We're helping, but also recycling or upcycling of fridges.
Eric
Upcycling of things to some folks, they're enamored by that.
Eric
I'm, as a designer, I like all of these things is why my opus has always been around a totally autonomous vehicle for this being a solar something that we weren't.
Eric
We're not taxing the neighbors because we'll pay for electricity.
Eric
But the idea that we could build something that doesn't ask resources from anyone at all I think is optimal.
Eric
It's optimal for so many reasons.
Eric
So we keep working on designs and furthering our case studies on solar fridges and the different models and how much power they need.
Eric
And it's interesting though because you run into some, like I said, this is all human based stuff.
Eric
You start running into issues that you had no idea you would have to run into when you offer a free power supply.
Eric
Like, you know, all of a sudden it's like, oh, okay, didn't think about that one.
Eric
All right, yeah.
Eric
And that's for.
Eric
Yeah, I digress.
Eric
But, but long story short.
Eric
Yeah, long story short, the Loveridge is community based program around just getting resources to folks.
Eric
It's a passion project.
Eric
It's.
Eric
I mean, you know, but it's very nuanced.
Stephanie
So you, you mentioned horizontality.
Stephanie
Hor.
Stephanie
Is that right?
Stephanie
Dice?
Eric
Horizontality.
Eric
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stephanie
Horizontality.
Eric
Equal.
Eric
Just an equal plane.
Eric
It's just like a.
Eric
I mean there's.
Eric
You could look it up, but basically it's the practice of removing hierarchy.
Eric
And it's actually a practice too.
Eric
It's not.
Eric
None of this is dogmatic.
Eric
It's not.
Eric
You do this thing and then this happens.
Eric
Not just add water.
Eric
I'll just give you a anecdotal example of horizontality.
Eric
It's why I call myself Bespoke.
Eric
I don't often use the term co founder unless I'm speaking to folks that aren't necessarily familiar with the way this, the way the way we operate.
Eric
But the context is, even though I might have been around since the beginning, you're just as valued as I am.
Eric
Your opinion is just as valued.
Eric
What you offer is just as value.
Eric
And so in order to con can.
Eric
To have that kind of space, we have to openly agree which we have a community agreement which is available to anyone if they're interested, and we ask people to sign on to that if they work with us.
Eric
Um, and there's some.
Eric
Some key.
Eric
Some major red flags if you don't.
Eric
If you can't meet these, we just won't rock with you.
Eric
Number one, no personal leveraging.
Eric
So these aren't influence.
Eric
These aren't influence magnets.
Eric
These aren't spots for you to go take photos out in front of with your homies because you offered some food to somebody.
Eric
It sounds crazy to have to say that, but, you know, it's 20, 24.
Stephanie
Oh, yeah.
Stephanie
I went out with a guy that had a.
Stephanie
Not for profit.
Stephanie
They had a turkey drive, and he wanted to take pictures of the people picking up turkeys.
Stephanie
And I'm just like, that's so rude and not necessary.
Stephanie
Like, let them take their turkeys.
Eric
Yeah.
Eric
It's straight othering.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Stephanie
Take their food and just go about the business.
Stephanie
Like, who cares?
Eric
You gonna pay them for the photos?
Eric
Like, pay them, right?
Eric
Get they, get them, get they.
Eric
If you go.
Eric
If you using it.
Eric
Because you're literally using it to.
Eric
To boost your own relevancy.
Eric
So give them some bread.
Eric
Give them some bread, bro.
Eric
If you got like.
Eric
Like, pay them.
Eric
Pay them for being extras in your models, right?
Eric
Because that's what you doing.
Eric
You using.
Eric
They came to get something to eat and you netting them.
Eric
You putting them in the net so you could put them on the net.
Eric
Like, you literally are like, you know, you gave food once, you gave food once.
Eric
How many times is that thing going to be used?
Eric
Right?
Eric
Is that equivalent?
Eric
Is that even.
Eric
I'll give you.
Eric
I'll give you a bag of food, and then I'm online forever.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Stephanie
And it's also like, it probably took this person a lot of courage to say, you know what?
Stephanie
Actually let me go and get these things, you know?
Stephanie
Cause you got to be in line, like, out on the street.
Stephanie
People have like big.
Stephanie
Like, that's like a big.
Eric
Like, that's enough already.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
You're already asking enough of them already.
Eric
Yeah.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Stephanie
So it's like, there's no need to.
Stephanie
Yeah, there's no need to do that.
Eric
Nah, it's a.
Eric
You know, that's just why we.
Eric
The big.
Eric
I guess if we're gonna.
Eric
I don't know how much longer we're gonna talk about mutually, but I don't make sure I get this in.
Eric
We believe there's a difference between mutual aid and charity.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
Charity is the dick dictates what people.
Eric
You're dictating what people need and what they're going to get.
Eric
Yeah, mutual aid.
Eric
The way we practice it, we get whatever we can get a hold of.
Eric
If we find out people need things, we go get those things.
Eric
So we offer fresh food, fresh vegetables, grains, meals.
Eric
I do programs where we offer fresh made meals because there's people that need something to eat right.
Eric
Then they don't have a place to make food.
Eric
We also offer hygiene, laundry stuff, and even pet food.
Eric
There's like, like groups we work with where we can offer pet food because people will sacrifice their own meals to get food for their animals.
Eric
Or vice versa.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Or vice versa.
Eric
If they don't have a lot of money, then, hey, you gotta eat.
Eric
You gotta eat scraps or something.
Eric
My guy, like, so this.
Eric
And there's even been times when we've offered Norcan.
Eric
That program isn't going on right now.
Eric
We haven't really.
Eric
Hasn't been really urgent.
Eric
But for a while we're offering NORCAN at sites and also feminine hygiene products.
Stephanie
Norcan.
Stephanie
What's norcan?
Eric
It's the stuff for when people have fentanyl.
Eric
When they OD on fentanyl and it's the stuff they can spray.
Eric
They can like spray on.
Stephanie
Oh, wow.
Eric
They inhale it and it'll get them out of that.
Eric
Oh, like it'll keep them from dying.
Stephanie
Wow.
Eric
It'll literally keep them from dying.
Eric
So.
Eric
Yeah.
Eric
So like.
Eric
Yeah.
Eric
And also we like groups will.
Eric
Will offer even information.
Eric
There's sites where, I mean, people leave clothes and stuff.
Eric
We really don't want them doing that.
Eric
We really don't.
Eric
Because you shouldn't leave clothes outside.
Eric
They're not.
Eric
These vehicles are not designed around.
Eric
And I don't know about you, but I don't want no damp clothes.
Stephanie
No.
Eric
Right.
Eric
I don't want clothes like.
Eric
So we're really trying to shy away, like, but sometimes people just leave things like that.
Eric
But also a lot of them have lending libraries like people, so they'll have books too, that people can share.
Eric
And then there's sites like, they don't have like DV or domestic violence outreach spaces like, like the information for folks too, that we don't mind.
Eric
We don't let people like put propaganda on our sites per se.
Eric
But if it's something we believe is a resource that folks need or want, we'll allow that.
Eric
But we don't really have a lot of flyering, thankfully, because that just creates.
Eric
They can just.
Eric
They're not really about.
Eric
It's not really ideal for flyering, but sometimes people do.
Eric
We've had to like Let a few.
Eric
I'm.
Eric
I will leave them unnamed, but I'm gonna clown them a little bit.
Eric
We had this group that offered food maybe for like a week, maybe couple weeks, and they started leaving yoga.
Eric
Like this was done like flyers on stuff about where they their yoga space and how they're the ones that offered to food.
Eric
We had to be like, come on, man.
Stephanie
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stephanie
Like it's not about you.
Eric
Like, like it's, you know, like do your little Instagram or whatever.
Eric
But you're like literally leaving stuff that becomes trash.
Eric
Like, yeah, like if everybody put a flyer that put food out, like, like, you know, saying like the out.
Eric
Like this is a community space.
Eric
Treat it like a community space.
Eric
So.
Stephanie
Right, right.
Stephanie
And like sustainability and like keeping it nice.
Eric
Yeah, yeah, but you know, but like I said all that.
Eric
We appreciate every.
Eric
There's appreciation for anyone that can offer support.
Eric
So I don't want this to sound like just, you know, but just make sure that you're thinking about like how you leave a site and what.
Eric
And like it's kind of important, you know.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Stephanie
So I want to ask you about your artwork, but before going to that you had.
Stephanie
I wondered if you had any other like values of your practice.
Stephanie
So it was the horizontality, reciprocity, it seems like, do you have like a bank of like you were going through?
Eric
I mean, like, you know, mutual aid is not charity.
Eric
So that's the main.
Eric
That's the main one.
Eric
Like.
Eric
And I think like we don't.
Eric
And the charity is defined as you offering things to people because you deem those are important to them.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
And also it also puts you.
Eric
Centers you.
Eric
Because you're censoring yourself.
Stephanie
Right.
Eric
You're saying, I know what people need.
Eric
I'm also provide what people need.
Eric
And so we work.
Eric
We don't work in that way.
Eric
It's really important.
Eric
And we're not an nfp.
Eric
We're not a non for profit, which means there is no board of directors.
Eric
We don't take a dime.
Eric
There is no salary positions.
Eric
All the funds we gather are gone toward the mission.
Eric
And they're all transparent.
Eric
We have our annual report is open every day.
Eric
Like it's a running tab of what we spend and what we have.
Eric
So those things are transparent.
Eric
NFPs, you know, have different rates of how much they actually spend on the mission.
Eric
You know, I mean, I think the National Cancer association spends less than 1% on actual cancer research.
Eric
Wow.
Eric
Most groups, I think we spend maybe close to.
Eric
I think we're around like 95 to 98% of our funds go toward the project.
Stephanie
The rest goes to.
Stephanie
How do you track it?
Stephanie
With QuickBooks?
Eric
No, we have physical sponsors that do our accounting for us.
Eric
So we have people.
Eric
We have.
Eric
We have people that will police us.
Eric
If you get my.
Eric
In one context, we're not.
Eric
Because, you know, we could just.
Eric
That is important, too, to have some kind of accountability.
Eric
So because we're not an nfp, we have to use a physical sponsor, which means an NFP that is in alignment with our program.
Eric
And basically they house our money for us, which allows us to not become an nfp.
Eric
So.
Eric
And the benefits of that is that because we're not an nfp, it means we can have board meetings or meetings and come to consult, consensus and make a move immediately.
Stephanie
Yeah, that's nice.
Eric
That's nice.
Eric
Immediately.
Stephanie
That's really.
Eric
So, like, if something happens in the beginning of the week, by the end of the week, we could be.
Eric
It could be solved where.
Eric
If you've done any mutual.
Eric
If you've done any NFP work, and I work in NFP structures, too.
Eric
I'm currently the president of the Chicago Printers Guild.
Eric
I'm not saying NFPs aren't useful.
Eric
They're just, in my opinion, things dealing with the urgency of human care, community care.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
Through that lens of NFP structures, I feel is flawed.
Eric
And that's why we.
Eric
I would.
Eric
We.
Eric
Early on, we started doing the Love Fridge program.
Eric
I actually put my foot down and said, if we were going to be an nfp, I would just be supportive.
Eric
But I didn't want to be a core member because I think NFPs run into a lot of issues, um, especially around the kind of work we were doing.
Eric
Um, but so, yeah, our accounting.
Eric
We have.
Eric
We.
Eric
We have accountants that are connected to our feasible sponsor.
Stephanie
Nice.
Eric
Um, I'm.
Eric
I mean, I guess there's two.
Eric
We always have for each.
Eric
Each thing role.
Eric
There's two people in our group.
Eric
No one person should ever be operating off a horizontality.
Eric
At minimum, there's always two.
Eric
And so, you know, I do a lot of the fiduciary stuff.
Eric
And so I'm pretty much really well versed on that.
Eric
I do grants and all that too.
Eric
But what this allows us to do is we do everything like an nfp, except we don't have to pay a board.
Eric
I don't have to pay a bunch of rich people or maybe a little facetious right now, but I have to pay a bunch of people with some accreditations from my other stuff to sit on a board.
Eric
And make decisions on things that they don't actually do themselves.
Stephanie
Right, right, Man.
Eric
Who else to say it?
Eric
But that's kind of, you know, that's what it be like to me.
Eric
That's what it looked like to me.
Eric
So take that with a.
Stephanie
You know, I just hate with, like a board meeting if we don't have quorum.
Stephanie
And it's like, you know what?
Stephanie
I have left my family to come to this meeting, and we're not going to meet because half of us aren't here.
Stephanie
Like, I could have stayed with my parents, you know, so.
Eric
Yeah, y'all should start doing them virtually at least.
Stephanie
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Stephanie
No, we do.
Stephanie
That was like another.
Stephanie
Another board that I was on.
Stephanie
Okay.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
That's the one thing I like about.
Stephanie
Zoom in all this rain.
Stephanie
But, yeah, yeah.
Eric
Oh, I wasn't.
Eric
No, no shade.
Eric
No shade.
Eric
But.
Stephanie
Oh, no, no, I know you weren't.
Stephanie
I know you weren't.
Eric
Yeah, but.
Eric
But.
Eric
But it's less of an excuse with this virtual stuff.
Eric
You get more.
Eric
To me, I think you get more done with certain meetings on this because it's like, oh, you're either.
Eric
You're not spending as much time, like, I don't know.
Eric
But yeah, it was good.
Eric
It was good for us.
Eric
Yeah, it's good for us.
Stephanie
And with all that you have going on, you have a whole art practice on top of that, and you're a.
Eric
Dad, so, like, happy father.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Stephanie
That's really cool.
Stephanie
You know, I love my dad, so I love seeing you with your kid.
Stephanie
I think it's really sweet.
Stephanie
I wanted to ask, so you just had a beautiful, beautiful exhibition closed at Tiger Strikes Asteroid, and I was curious what drew you to printmaking?
Stephanie
The especially.
Stephanie
I love printmaking.
Stephanie
I don't know a lot about it, but the lithographs, like, I'm just curious how you came to that medium.
Eric
Let me see.
Eric
I mean, I've always enjoyed print media.
Eric
I mean, I used to do illustrate, and I don't illustrate anymore.
Eric
Like, I don't think of myself as an illustrator anymore.
Eric
But I mean, my.
Eric
My first love for mark making in practice would probably be around drafting and things like that, so.
Eric
And I also used to be an anchor for comic illustrations for comic companies and stuff like that.
Eric
When I first moved to Chicago, I thought that would probably be what I would pursue, would be working in the comic industry as an illustrator or anchor.
Eric
And I did it for a little while and realized that while I could do it, it did not meet, it did not fulfill me.
Eric
And so for a lot of reasons, but it did not fulfill me.
Eric
And I needed more of a cha.
Eric
I wanted more of a challenge, and I wanted to learn more.
Eric
And so I went to the Art Institute of Chicago.
Eric
I was already screen printing before I went back to school.
Stephanie
Okay.
Eric
But what I like is in.
Eric
To keep it really simple.
Eric
I enjoy making art in all kinds of different things, Sculptural stuff, community spaces, all of that.
Eric
But.
Eric
But print is the democracy.
Eric
I believe in a democracy of the page.
Eric
Print allows you to disseminate ideas as much as you want by making a multiple.
Eric
Right.
Eric
I can make as many as I want.
Eric
I can sell them or I can share.
Eric
I can put them out for free and can't nobody tell me nothing.
Eric
I can put my opinions out.
Eric
That's what I love that at its core, that's what I love about print.
Eric
As a black man in America, as a black man in.
Eric
Like a black man in the 21st century, having the.
Eric
Having the ability to disseminate my own ideas the way I want them, how I want them, what I want to say with no BTUs, because these things, you don't own that.
Eric
You don't own that.
Eric
You.
Eric
Where.
Eric
People publish on these all the time now, but it's temporary.
Eric
It's temporary.
Eric
Whereas I can print 100,000, 10,000, 500 or something.
Eric
And it can go in collections, it can go to you, it can go to me.
Eric
It can go.
Eric
It can be reprint, it can be reprinted, which is fascinating.
Eric
There's been things I've been part of.
Eric
Now there's a book called what Can Publishers do now, that half letterpress released maybe six years ago, maybe five years ago now, and it's been reprinted, like, in six different languages.
Eric
And I get.
Eric
Right.
Eric
I get people writing me from Japan or Colombia or Parisian folk.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
That have read my words, that have been translated in these pieces.
Eric
That's what print is, right?
Eric
Like.
Eric
Like a momentary.
Eric
A moment I had that I captured in writing was put into print.
Eric
And now it's out there forever, right?
Eric
My opinion is out there forever.
Eric
I don't need Twitter, I don't need Instagram to get my.
Eric
Like, I mean, it's the original way.
Eric
I mean, the Bible.
Eric
I mean, I'm not religious, but, like, I can philosophically.
Eric
Let's break it down, right?
Eric
Print allowed the word of God to be disseminated, right.
Eric
For folks to.
Eric
It wasn't control.
Eric
It removed the control of religion, of the.
Eric
Of Judeo Christianity.
Eric
Let's focus on that, right?
Eric
It allowed different folk to interpret that.
Eric
That word.
Eric
Right?
Eric
I mean, originally people didn't read.
Eric
Yeah, nobody was reading.
Eric
People read to them.
Eric
So as a black man, I'll go back to that.
Eric
I think we should be all in this space because the narrative is not controlled by us.
Eric
And we live in an anti black society that's constantly diminishing us.
Eric
And how do you fight against that when it's.
Eric
How do you, how do you, how do you fight against that if you don't create diverse spaces for us?
Eric
Right.
Eric
And so for me, publication space not only in my own work, but also have Flatland Press, which I print books, I create books, I publish books and printed matter for other artists that I did.
Eric
I want to see out in the universe.
Eric
This is also this hierarchical belief that if something's not like, books make people more important.
Eric
I like books, but there's also this.
Eric
So if it's not in a book, there's a whole lot of folk out here, they don't take it that serious.
Eric
Much like the mutual aid stuff we were talking about earlier, like I've been practicing my whole life.
Eric
This person makes a book on it and then all of a sudden it's everywhere.
Eric
Right.
Eric
So I'm not diminishing that book.
Eric
What I'm saying is creating these, like creating these multiples, putting them out there in the universe reinforces a philosophy or your way of life.
Eric
I'm a believer.
Eric
My paradigm is art theory, culture.
Eric
So you create it, then you figure out why.
Eric
And then after time it becomes practice.
Eric
And it's kind of evident with like things like love fridge.
Eric
It works that way.
Eric
First we made the thing, then we worked out the key.
Eric
We're constantly working on, develop on how we can do better.
Eric
But it's culturally changed Chicago.
Eric
I can honestly say that there's spots like we do not videotape people.
Eric
So you have to take my word on it.
Eric
But when I go to these sites, folks know what they're.
Eric
They know we're there to help.
Eric
They help me unload the car, they clean people.
Eric
Cleansing, like it's community supported thing.
Eric
And that's why I've invested in it.
Eric
If the community didn't want it, they wouldn't work.
Eric
It wouldn't last.
Eric
If the community didn't want these spaces, they don't get vandalized, they don't get like there's a lot of support.
Eric
It's not just us, it's the community.
Eric
This is why we call it.
Eric
This is why mutual aid to me is quite different than charity.
Eric
It's quite different than these other models.
Eric
People respect that we are there, we are coming as equals, and they help and we're able to help.
Eric
And it.
Eric
It reinforces that we're all the same, man.
Eric
People just need something.
Eric
This is ridiculous.
Eric
We're spending billions of dollars on trash.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
And we got folks in this country that just don't even have access.
Eric
We have folks in this state, in the city.
Eric
They don't have access to clean drinking water.
Eric
Own homes.
Stephanie
Yeah, yeah, they're in these homes, but.
Eric
Their water is not drinkable.
Eric
So for me, I don't know if I lost the plot on that, but I'll stop there.
Eric
I think I might have lost.
Eric
I got off track.
Stephanie
But, you know, I think.
Stephanie
No, because I think what it just comes down to.
Stephanie
I was going to ask next if you were an only child.
Eric
Nope.
Eric
No, I was just.
Stephanie
Oh, oh, that's right.
Stephanie
That's right.
Eric
And you actually met her.
Stephanie
That's right.
Stephanie
Yeah, that's right.
Stephanie
Because I wondered about, like, it just sounds like you're really good with sharing.
Stephanie
Now I'm an only child and so I guess I wonder, like, I've always liked sharing.
Eric
I've always liked sharing.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
When I cook and I cook, I overcook so people can come eat.
Eric
This is how I.
Eric
That's how I grew up.
Eric
Like I said, it's.
Eric
It's probably.
Eric
I mean, I'm my.
Eric
My mom's side, who I'm the probably the closest to are all Catholic.
Eric
And so that could be.
Eric
There's going to be some underpinnings of that, which is you just.
Eric
We just share, we just get.
Eric
It's a giving.
Eric
We just.
Eric
It's.
Eric
I don't.
Eric
I don't know, like, to me, I don't make art to get paid.
Eric
I've never made art.
Eric
I make art because I have to.
Eric
It's cathartic.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
It took me a long time to be like, oh, you know what?
Eric
I'm gonna do art as a living.
Eric
I mean, even when I was at the Art Institute, during that process, yeah, I was working on my.
Eric
My own craft, but I was also thinking about how I could get some money in my pocket.
Eric
So I focused a lot on visual.
Eric
On visual communications, I.
Eric
E.
Eric
Graphic design, marketing.
Eric
So I was working in marketing firms.
Eric
By my sophomore year at Dart Institute, I was working at.
Eric
Draft was my first firm I ever worked at, which is now Draft fcb.
Stephanie
Okay.
Eric
And so.
Eric
And part of that is because I'm an anarchist.
Eric
At my core, I'm an anarchist and not what people might think an anarchist is.
Eric
To me, I believe in the true philosophy of anarchy, which is it's not the.
Eric
The strongest survive.
Eric
It's the strongest groups survive, which is, none of us would be here.
Eric
The dark.
Eric
The idea of Darwin philosophy on humanity is flawed.
Eric
No one human could make it on their own.
Eric
It was tribes.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
And so I still believe in that.
Eric
And I think the capitalist model is based off of the.
Eric
It fleeces that.
Eric
Right.
Eric
It's like someone becomes a champion of something at everyone else's demise.
Eric
Right.
Eric
Like, I don't believe there should be a billionaire.
Eric
No one person should.
Eric
It shouldn't be possible to be a billionaire.
Eric
It makes no sense.
Eric
It makes no sense.
Eric
So at my core, I'm an anarchist.
Eric
And that means that I believe that.
Eric
And that's based off of my belief in horizontality and that we should all be equals.
Eric
And if we're all aiming to be equals, the capitalist model does not support that at all.
Eric
It does not support that.
Eric
And you can tell it doesn't support that when, you know, I'll get political.
Eric
The Supreme Court votes.
Eric
Votes in Citizens United, which makes money equal free speech.
Eric
So that means if I got no money, I don't have a voice.
Eric
Which goes back to your original question on asking me why do I work in print.
Eric
I work in print for a lot of reasons, but can nobody tell me what I can print and put out there?
Eric
So I can put information out there.
Eric
I can educate folk without charging them anything or charging whatever I want.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
And.
Eric
And putting it wherever I want.
Eric
So that's.
Eric
That's part of why I work in print.
Stephanie
Pick your colors because everything always looks so pretty.
Eric
It's just themes.
Eric
Themes.
Eric
You know, I love color.
Eric
I like color theory.
Eric
It's just themes.
Eric
If you're talking about the show.
Eric
Drawn through restraint.
Eric
Those colors are picked specifically to play off of the harsh.
Eric
Kind of juxtapose, the harsh materiality I was playing with.
Eric
So I played with, like, gentle colors or.
Eric
Or graded colors that had gradations.
Eric
So a lot of that played off of.
Eric
I don't want to say a floral pattern, but I definitely leaned into my love for orchids, which are a symbolic gesture in the show as well.
Eric
There's multiple orchids in the show that also, like, played with the colors that were using some of the lithography.
Eric
But honestly, color for me is mood.
Eric
It's often mood.
Eric
You know, it's like if you're playing music, you know, from playing one kind of song, I might, you know, if you're making one kind of form of music, you might lean into some Keys versus some strings.
Stephanie
What, like, with this exhibit, what messages or emotions did you.
Stephanie
Did, like, viewers have of it or that you hope that they took away from the work?
Eric
Man, it's hard to.
Eric
I really.
Eric
It's really hard to find out what people really think.
Eric
You know what I mean?
Eric
Because it's like when you did the work.
Eric
Right.
Eric
But for me, the work was like.
Eric
I purposely give myself restraints when I think of art.
Eric
Like, I'm also a designer.
Eric
So, like, art and design are different to me, but sometimes they cross over.
Eric
So for this, I gave myself purposeful restraints from day one.
Eric
And I didn't want to work on the computer.
Eric
I didn't want this to be computer assisted or digitally.
Eric
Like, I didn't want this.
Eric
I wanted this to be as analog work, to be as analog and visceral and gestural as possible.
Eric
So I put a lot of restraints on myself for building those images.
Eric
Nothing was photographed or manipulated before it was created into full disclosure for the audience.
Eric
She's.
Eric
We're talking about lithography plates that were made.
Eric
There was the caution tape to create a little bit of grain pressed with glass.
Eric
Eight monotypes.
Eric
It took a year of building assets.
Eric
And I think I was spending like two days a week, usually a Monday and a Sunday, a Sunday to a Monday, in two different studios with another printer named Gabe Orr, who's a good friend and one of the only other people who's ever printed my work.
Eric
I normally print all my work myself.
Eric
This was a gift to have someone who would help me so I could just be an artist and not get caught up in the.
Eric
All of the nuances of the technicality of printing.
Eric
And I love Gabe.
Eric
Gabe's a friend.
Eric
But Gabe's also appreciates my methodology, I believe, and wanted to invest in me.
Eric
Just being in, as I.
Eric
And I quote, is like, you do so much.
Eric
I just want to.
Eric
I want to work with you and help you do some stuff, which was quite sweet.
Eric
Which is.
Eric
Yeah.
Stephanie
And so reciprocity.
Eric
So I hope some of that comes out when you see the work is that those are days and months and.
Eric
And of time spent and with another.
Eric
With another person and their stories and is like the.
Eric
Just the camaraderie that comes around spending that time and playing music with each other and talking about all the things going on and having this, like, really quiet space where I'm not online, I'm not on a computer to create these.
Eric
These images and to come up with the color palette and all of that over time and then sit with it.
Eric
And that's what I want through the process, through people looking at this body of work.
Eric
Honestly, any art I make, I hope that people sit with it.
Eric
I don't make stickers per se.
Eric
So the longer you sit with it, it should evolve or.
Eric
And I'm a practitioner of slow media.
Eric
I believe that, like, I love slow media.
Eric
I think with the advent of AI art and just like the hyper reality we live in where everything's jump cut and smashed together.
Eric
I don't really watch tv, but I was watching the Olympics with my daughter, been watching the Olympics with my daughter because she's loves volleyball.
Eric
And so we're watching these games and every time out they smash these commercials in.
Eric
And I haven't watched mean.
Eric
I'm a.
Eric
I worked in bavertizing for way too long.
Eric
I detest, I detest commercials.
Eric
I think they're probably the most recessive thing ever.
Eric
And the patterns, the way they're created, I mean, I don't like TV much at all.
Eric
I grew up abroad, which is, I didn't really grew up with a lot of tv.
Eric
I like movies.
Eric
I grew up with more movies.
Eric
Not, not saying that movies are better, but the format of tv, I have a hard time with the rigid format.
Eric
I cannot stand canned laughter.
Eric
Since I was a kid, always been weirded out by canned laughter, which is like, this is phony, it's fake.
Eric
Why?
Eric
It's like.
Eric
And it's jammed in there.
Eric
That wasn't funny.
Eric
Like, it like, that wasn't even funny.
Eric
And so why did I say, why did I bring up commercials?
Eric
There's a reason I brought up commercials.
Stephanie
Oh, you're watching tv, slow media.
Eric
So I'm watching and I'm watching the way they're jamming these commercials in.
Eric
And they're not even, they're hyphenated, they're not even showing.
Eric
Like to get as many of them they can in so they can make that ad revenue.
Eric
They shove like four commercials into this one block.
Eric
And the first one was for some like, pharmaceutical.
Eric
They didn't even tell you what the pharmaceutical was.
Eric
They just told you what the side effects were.
Eric
I'm like, this is where we are, where you could just put a commercial up.
Eric
I watched it with my daughter and they're talking all kinds of wild side effects.
Eric
Like, you know, saying like, they just.
Stephanie
Threw out, like, what's this drug again?
Eric
Like, they threw everything out from cancer to like, they, they just like moving it on and moving on and it's just like that.
Eric
I don't think the human brain was Made for these things.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
I don't believe we were made to ingest all of that on a regular basis without it having some impact on us.
Eric
So I believe in slow media for a lot of reasons.
Eric
I believe, like, headspace having, you know, giving yourself the space to interpret something the way you interpret it versus being forced or giving guardrails on how to interpret it.
Eric
And I think slow, like, so for me, textural, visceral qualities of things are really important, you know, like.
Eric
And that goes back to, like, books.
Eric
My.
Eric
My love for books.
Eric
Like you.
Eric
You can.
Eric
I can have.
Eric
I can read a book multiple times, get different perspectives on it.
Eric
I can share that book.
Eric
No BTUs, you know, like, hey, Steph, this book is great.
Eric
Here, check it out.
Eric
You can read it.
Eric
You give it to a hundred other people, right?
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
It didn't cost.
Eric
No Congolese kid his foot.
Eric
It didn't cost.
Eric
You know, it's.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
There's an externality to our universe, and I think we oftentimes do not want.
Eric
We're complicit in it.
Eric
And while I know I'm complicit in it, like just being on this object now or complicit into some capacity, I'm not saying I'm.
Eric
I'm above it, but having, like, respecting and my romance for slow media is because it limits the amount of damage we're two to our environment and to each other.
Eric
And it also allows for personal introspection.
Eric
And you can have it anywhere you want.
Eric
You could look at it on the beach.
Eric
You could look at it in your house, in your bedroom.
Eric
It's private.
Eric
It's.
Eric
And it's really an intimate thing.
Eric
And it'll be here long after I'm dust, you know, I have flat files and collections around the world of my work and work I've made with other people that'll be here long after I'm stardust to share what I thought, you know, so.
Stephanie
Yeah, that's really lovely.
Stephanie
It's like, all from today.
Stephanie
It just feels like you're a big, giant teddy bear.
Eric
Is it the beard?
Stephanie
No, it's just, like, so, like, it's all, like, you know, take your time.
Stephanie
It's cool.
Stephanie
It's love.
Stephanie
I'm going to take care of you.
Stephanie
I like that.
Eric
Yeah.
Eric
I mean, like, all you got is one day at a time.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
It's all like one day at a time, you know?
Eric
And I'm always telling myself, you know, what I don't know could fill the universe.
Eric
So I try not to make any Assumptions and unlearning, which is a big part of my practice too, is unlearning.
Eric
I'm constantly like bombarded with concepts that like, oh, I had no idea.
Eric
I had no idea that one of the America's best lithographer, master lithographer Robert Blackburn, was a black man.
Stephanie
Oh, wow.
Stephanie
I didn't know that either.
Eric
That's something for you to go check out.
Eric
Yeah.
Eric
He printed everything.
Eric
He printed all of Rauschenberg's work.
Eric
Started at 17.
Eric
He was a prodigy at 17 years old.
Stephanie
Wow.
Stephanie
Wow.
Eric
Opened a print shop that still exists in New York that has the most.
Eric
Is that kind of started the community model in Western hemisphere on what a community print shop should look like.
Eric
So we offered folks, they didn't have to be institutional, they didn't have to have a bunch of money.
Eric
They could sweep a floor and get access to the studio, whatever they could do.
Eric
Which is.
Eric
Goes back into the concept of mutual aid.
Eric
Right.
Eric
If you want, like, we can find a space for you.
Eric
You don't have to have your daddy's money or what your mama's money to get access to an institution, to learn how to half ass do something, to then go out into the world and then learn how to really do it.
Eric
We can just teach it now.
Eric
And that's.
Eric
I think that's something I'll give Gabe credit for too.
Eric
Gabe actually got to work at one of Robert Blackburn's studios.
Eric
Oh, wow.
Stephanie
Very cool.
Eric
I found this out during our process of getting to know each other and I actually have taught, like, was on a panel with his.
Eric
His mentor, his.
Eric
His mentor or his teacher.
Eric
His name is Scott Phillips, I believe.
Eric
And Scott studied directly with Robert Blackburn and has followed his philosophy of sharing the art, sharing these, these techniques, and has like move has.
Eric
Has gone to like South Africa and other places on the planet to teach these methods, teach these methods of creating, like multiples.
Eric
So there's a long tradition and as you know, as a black person in this country, oftentimes we are like, like pedestals or like, or like literally anchors or foundations for things that we won't even know about.
Eric
So like, next time, like, so next time you looking at some Russian, just go look up the pedigree of Robert Blackburn and it'll make you shake your head.
Stephanie
Wow.
Eric
He's also a very giving person.
Eric
He did not care about money.
Eric
He did not care about, like being rich and famous.
Eric
And he just wanted to help create more.
Eric
He just loved the art of printmaking and sharing that technique.
Eric
And so those are kind of things.
Eric
Like I didn't know about him growing up.
Eric
Like, if I had known about him when I was, like a kid, I probably would have been more enthused about the art of printmaking even earlier.
Stephanie
Even earlier.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Stephanie
No, for sure.
Eric
That's.
Stephanie
That stuff definitely matters.
Stephanie
That stuff definitely matters.
Eric
You don't see us very often.
Eric
You do not see us.
Eric
I mean, right now we're in the modern art world.
Eric
I feel like it's really popular to show a lot of black painters.
Eric
Even though.
Eric
Which I.
Eric
Which I'm.
Eric
I'm.
Eric
I'm happy to.
Eric
Any black artist, any artist gets.
Stephanie
Anybody that gets shy, get.
Eric
Has a wit, you know, has witness for what they're doing.
Stephanie
Yeah.
Eric
But oftentimes feel like we're.
Eric
We're very categorized.
Eric
Right.
Eric
And so, you know, and we'll wrap it up here because I could see us going on for another hour and what I was about to say, so.
Stephanie
Oh, my gosh.
Eric
Well, I'll stop now.
Stephanie
Thank you for being on the show.
Eric
I appreciate you having me.
Stephanie
I really love Eric's energy.
Stephanie
I love his enthusiasm, his passion, his knowledge.
Stephanie
You know, as the kids say, let him cook.
Stephanie
You know, we let Eric cook today on Nosy af.
Stephanie
And when Eric and I had this conversation, it was in the warmer months.
Stephanie
It was right near the end of his exhibition at Tiger Strikes Asteroid closing.
Stephanie
And even though that was then, I think that his conversation, us hearing it now is just super duper timely.
Stephanie
Because during the holiday season, everyone is all cheerful.
Stephanie
Everyone's in a giving spirit.
Stephanie
We're donating money, we're sharing resources.
Stephanie
And that's really just like how Eric lives.
Stephanie
And I feel in this holiday season when everybody's feeling all cheery, maybe it's a good reminder to start being more cheery every day of our lives.
Stephanie
Please make sure that you check the show notes of today's episode.
Stephanie
Eric left tons and tons of information and I'm going to link to everything that he said in the show notes.
Stephanie
So if there's something that you were like, wait, what was that?
Stephanie
Please check the show notes because it will be there for you.
Stephanie
And hey, you know, happy holidays.
Stephanie
This has been another episode of Nosy af.
Stephanie
I'm your host, Stephanie Graham.
Stephanie
What did you think about today's conversation?
Stephanie
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Stephanie
Head over to the Nosy AF website for all the show notes related to this episode.
Stephanie
You can also find me on Instagram.
Stephanie
Tefanie Graham, what would you know?
Stephanie
Or online@missgraham.com where you can sign up for my newsletter where I share exclusive updates about my studio practice as well as this podcast.
Stephanie
Until next time, y'all stay curious and take care.
Stephanie
Bye.