Faux Fur, Circus Stories, Feelings, and Soft Power with Catie Burrell

Hey, friends.

Welcome, and welcome back to Nosy AF conversations about art, activism and social change.

My name is Stephanie and I am your friend and host.

And today's episode is a recording of my very first day as a radio host on Lumpin Radio, which I spoke about in the last episode.

I love to hear what you think of the live version of this show.

I will be doing a live version of this show on the second and fourth Saturday of the month starting at 2pm Central.

So if you can join us live, please do.

You can also stream on lumpinradio.com and this episode features a conversation with artist Katie Burrell.

And I'm so glad I get to share it with you, so please enjoy.

Hello, Chicago.

Hello, Lumpin radio, WLPNLP Chicago 105.5 FM Lumpin radio.

Today's my first day.

I am Stephanie Graham and this is Nosy AF conversations about art, activism and social change.

Let's see, we have here.

I am really, really excited to be here.

I'm a huge fan of Lumpin.

I am one of your new spring shows, and you and I are gonna get to be friends.

So I'm super stoked about that.

I love friends.

So check it out.

This is a conversation today.

I am so happy to be here and kick off the show with none other than Katie Burrell, who's an artist here.

If y'all don't know Katie, she is one of our planet's faux fur queens.

And I do mean foe.

Okay, so there's like no chinchillas, no rabbits being harmed while Katie is making her magic.

She's also the current president of Bobbles and Bling.

Self appointed, obviously.

And she's out here turning scraps, street finds and ebay treasure into plush narrative dreamscapes.

Katie, welcome.

Oh, my gosh, what a dream.

Katie.

Yeah.

Thank you for being here on my very first day.

Yeah, it's an honor, Stephanie.

And it's also my first time on the radio.

What?

Hello, world.

It's good to be here.

I was telling Katie, I was like, chicago, you will never be the same.

You have Schomburg turned Avalon park in.

In Bridgeport here.

So, Katie, how are you doing today?

I'm doing good.

I feel good.

That's good.

So your work is so colorful and so furry.

Yeah.

And why fur?

Yeah, why fur?

Okay, so why fur?

It's like, I can give you a philosophical answer one, or I can give you a technical answer two, But I'm gonna give you all of it.

So first of all, fur.

I got really interested in fur.

Just.

I've been sewing since I was a little girl.

My mother taught me to sew on a machine when I was, like, in kindergarten.

So using fabric and textiles has always been a big part of my work.

Touch.

Looking at textiles, different patterns has always been a big deal.

And then, you know, I've been sewing for a long time.

And during the.

During the pandemic, I was in school, and I decided I hated doing virtual school because, you know, I was.

It was.

Not to mention the world was a disaster and it was ending, and so I decided to take a leave of absence, and I was like, I need to get a job.

Okay.

And so, you know, I got on Chicago Artists Coalition's job board.

Right.

As one does, and I found a job, and I got hired at a costume shop that specializes in fur suits for the furry fandom.

Wow.

And so I rode out the pandemic for one year with the furries on a sewing machine.

And it was the best people to ride out the pandemic with.

Like, we're totally insular.

Got deep into furry drama on YouTube.

Fascinating subculture.

But so during that time, I started collecting all the scraps and remnants that we were, you know, making these suits, tails, ears, whatever with.

And I just started.

I just started.

I got a.

I just developed.

I have a hoard.

Okay.

I got a hoard.

And that.

I mean, that was now.

I guess that was now four years ago.

I still have that.

I still got a big pile, as you've seen in my studio.

Yes.

It is overflowing.

And then now.

Since then, I'm also like, you know, that world is interesting.

It's adjacent to the cosplay world.

Okay.

C2ET was yesterday.

I went.

I was refreshed on seeing how many people sew and make their own clothes.

Yeah.

And so I've developed since then.

One of my good friends, she's gone independent.

She has her own costume shop.

And so I will go and sew for her.

And she continues to give me scraps of faux fur.

So that's like.

That's, like the technical side of where.

I got it from, you know, the furry community.

Is that an expensive.

Is this is expensive hobby?

It looks like it.

I mean, I've seen some of these furry costumes, and they look elaborate.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I can't.

I can't speak too much to the, you know, the furry lifestyle.

I'm not.

I'm not.

I am not a furry.

I am an ally, I guess.

I thought you might see the price tags.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, those price.

I mean, I feel like a suit minimum, 3500 doll.

Hundred dollars, plus the add ons.

Whatever you want, you know.

Wow.

You want.

You want to get some.

You know.

Do you?

Well, I'm not going to go into the details.

There's a lot of add ons you can get for extra.

A lot of extra money.

Okay.

It'll tack on a few hundred.

Extra hundred, but yeah, you.

It.

Yeah, I guess if you're, if you're, if you are invested.

Yeah, it's gonna.

You're gonna pay some money.

Wow.

Yeah, that's.

That's something.

Yeah.

And the fur itself is pretty expensive too.

You know, like $20 a yard.

It can, it can cost a lot.

And there's different styles too.

So you've been accumulating this pile of fur for a few years then?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, I have too much.

I actually, I almost like, I'm almost like.

I'm almost.

I dare say.

I dare say that I might be done with fur soon.

What?

I know, I know, but we all.

Are always evolving, right?

Right.

I might.

I'm.

Yeah, I'm.

Part of me wants to sell it off as scraps, but I don't know.

I want to.

I'm.

I miss working with fabric and other materials, so I think I'm going to start incorporating other.

I'm really interested in using brocades right now and clear vinyl as a material source.

What's a brocade?

So it's like this beautiful textile that I can only describe as what it's very like, you know, I got a palace.

Okay.

And these are the curtains.

And so.

But it's like a dramatic palace.

And like, you know, I'm like a countess and I got all these emerald colors, sapphires.

It's very like, it's very.

I guess, I don't know.

I think it's majestic.

It's a majestic fabric.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You use.

When I also think of your work, it's like majestic mythology, magic.

You know, you have like, maybe like.

Let's talk about.

You have like personal mythology.

Yeah, Yeah.

I.

I think somebody reminded me of this yesterday, one of our friends, about how I love the sublime and what the concept of that is.

And I love.

I guess I, you know, I don't know.

I don't know why I fully make these giant faux fur sculptures other than, you know, I like.

I guess I think of them as like my giant friends in my other world, you know, And I make.

I make sense of the world through animal and human behavior.

Very Observant to that.

And so through animals, then I get hyper focused in and I'm like, worms.

Okay, worms.

What does it mean?

Cause sometimes it's easier to think about worms than the horrors of reality.

Yeah.

And so, you know, with worms, then I get deep in.

Somebody tells me worms have 10 hearts, you know, and so I'm like, well, worms are all about love.

Yeah.

And then I'm like, well, worms move really slow.

And so we're inching along and then I started thinking, oh, this is a good metaphor for, you know, what it's like to live in, you know, the late stage capitalist hellscape that we find ourselves in, that we must move slowly and tenderly.

And, you know, thinking of like, worms live in the dirt, you know, and so we're not all high up in the sky, but we're grounded.

And then, you know, and then I started thinking, oh, worms travel in a pack, right?

And so community is important.

And then, you know, here's.

Here we go.

Here's my brain moving.

And then I start thinking, oh, worms come out in the rain.

Right, right.

And so they're like.

In a sense, I think of them as, you know, maybe.

I mean, nobody actually knows why worms come out.

The scientists can't figure it out.

Okay.

Science cannot figure everything out.

That's my attitude.

And so I think worms come out in the rain because they like to dance in the rain.

Okay.

And that's a beautiful symbol, you know.

Yeah.

So then I make giant worms, right?

And I call it.

I call it fir gate.

Okay.

So there are two giant worms.

It's archway.

You can enter through fir gate.

And I call it embrace the worm.

You know, that's so interesting.

Like, I didn't know that worms traveled in packs because when they come out in the rain, they're always like separated on the driveway.

Like, there's one here, one there.

They're like dancing by themselves.

Yeah.

Well, there's even like this weird phenomenon.

I can't remember what the term is, but, like, where they all get wiggled together.

I think they sleep together in a giant worm pile and like to stay warm.

But then I think I've heard they can even tangle up and get stuck that way.

It's like, gross.

Rats can do the same thing with their tongue.

Oh, yeah, I heard that.

Rat king.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't want to go there.

At first I was thinking, like when you were talking about worms, I'm like, you know, maybe it would be nice to be a worm, but I'm not trying to be sleeping and getting tangled up with a bunch of people, it's just not my style.

Yeah.

No cuddle puddles, right?

Absolutely not.

No, thank you.

Absolutely not.

So, like.

Yeah, so you and I are both residents at Chicago Art Department right now, and yeah, your big entryway into the.

The worms, into Furgate, you called it Furgate.

And then have you thought.

So, like, you're a world builder, right?

You, like, make these worlds.

Oh, and that's where I want to go.

You've worked in the circus.

Yeah.

Can you talk about that?

Yeah.

So building worlds.

Yeah, I mean, I'm an escapist at heart.

I love to escape reality.

Right.

Who doesn't?

You know, maybe not everyone does, actually.

Some people like reality, but for me, joining the circus, I did that.

So, like, I was like 25.

Right.

Some people, like, I feel like that's like the age.

People are like, that's when I'm going to get it together.

That's when I'm going to buckle down and get serious in my career.

And then I'm like, all right, I need to get away.

And so I'm like, I'm going to join the circus.

And so I did that for almost three years.

In my 20s, I worked professionally as a chef.

I went to culinary school.

I like working with my hands.

I consider still what I do as an artist very related to working in a kitchen.

You know, working with color, scents, flavor, visually stunning.

And then like also gathering people together in that way a community event.

Thinking of your audience, I suppose.

But yeah, so I.

Yeah, I tried.

I traveled with a traditional three ring circus for almost three years, working backstage primarily.

And so I was not front facing.

I didn't.

I mean, I saw the audience.

I didn't talk to them.

I was backstage, I was speaking circus lingo.

You know, we had our own language.

Such as?

Oh, like, okay, so I worked in the pie car.

That's what they call it.

Okay.

Pie car is like where.

That's where the food's made.

And then.

Okay, so what's some other things that we would say, you know, in the.

Film, in the film world, if you have to go to the bathroom, you would say 10, one.

10 one, yeah.

Do you guys have, like, something like that there?

Oh, God, it's been so.

It's been long.

But yeah, there's all these, like, there's.

There is language in that way, you know, I don't know.

There's like a tradition also, like just on the note of pies, like, if it was your birthday, then someone's going to sneak up and throw a.

A shaving cream pie in your face.

And it's going to be fun.

You know, what if you had your hair braided?

Like, if I had my hair braid and you're putting shaving cream in my hair.

Were there black girls on the.

Yeah.

Wow.

And they got shaving cream in their hair?

You know, I, I don't remember the logistics.

Yeah, that went.

Yeah.

But, yeah, so that's.

Were there animals that you would meet, see in the circus?

Yeah, there was.

I, I, you know, I stayed away from that a lot.

Okay.

I will say I did like to hang out with the guys that worked with the lions.

Yeah, they were fun.

Yeah, I bet.

Tough, you know.

Yeah.

Spicy.

Liked to drink alcohol.

You know, having a.

We're having a fire in the train yard out back.

It was quite a lifestyle.

That sounds like quite a lifestyle.

I essentially, I felt like a swashbuckler, you know, what's that like?

I'm like.

I was like a pirate, you know.

Okay.

Lawless.

Yeah.

And, you know, because we moved every week, we would move to a new state.

And so we traveled.

We lived and worked and stored our stuff on a private train that we would go around in.

And so then we would park in train yards all over the country.

And living in train yards as a lifestyle is, you know, just brings out a roughness in you.

And also seeing, you know, America through these, like, the eyes of traveling on the rail versus the road saw a lot of the country that was, like, completely untouched.

You know, going through the hills of Appalachia, switch back, like, rounded turns and seeing houses that are in the middle of nowhere, and children would, like, run out and wave at us or, you know, even going through cities.

I remember we went through New York City, Manhattan.

We.

We traveled in their subway tunnels.

And so.

And we, we also.

The other thing about it is that the train had open windows, which is very unusual with, you know, you don't really.

I can't do that on the cta.

I guess.

I guess you could if you go in between the CARs and the CTA.

Right.

But then that's like a little, you know, that's.

That's dangerous.

It's dangerous.

But ours were more.

It was a.

It was a safer situation.

There's more space.

Yeah.

And so it was, you know, to be able to stick your head out while you're moving, you know, your moving 60 miles per hour through, like, the Mojave Desert was, you know, just incredible.

So with the open, you know, like, if you're riding In a car.

And you just have your window, your hand hanging out the window, just enjoying.

Could you do that?

Like, in the train car?

Yes.

Wow.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Okay, so I have this memory.

We were.

Oh, God, it was like, the longest we ever spent on a run.

We call it a run.

We were going on the run, and it was from, like, Tampa, Florida, to, like, Northern California, like, Stockton, California, you know, going to these offbeat cities.

And I remember we were like.

It was like.

It took a week.

And I was like, after day three is when people would start to, like, go a little, you know, loopy, right?

Cause we can't get off the train.

We live on the train.

People are drinking on the train, where, you know, I'm cooking food at 2:00am you know, but having a good time.

But so, like, by day three, people start to lose it.

They go stir crazy, you know.

And so, yeah, like, so we're through.

We're going through Kansas.

It's like, it's summertime, so it's super hot.

And then there's just bugs everywhere.

Like, just like.

And so we got the wind.

The window.

We got the windows open.

Oh, my God.

And so.

But, like, they're not coming in too much.

But so I remember we.

I didn't do this, but I witnessed it.

People, the kids, the young ones, right?

They're, like, sticking their heads out the window, like, come on.

Also, like, opening their mouth wide.

You are kidding.

And seeing who could catch the most bugs in their mouth.

Like that.

Bad kids.

Bad, nasty kids.

Bad, nasty kids.

It was like a contest.

Yeah.

Unbelievable.

Yeah.

Would they.

And then what?

Just spit them out?

I don't know.

You know what?

Let's not go there.

That's just too crazy for me.

That's just too crazy for me.

So then in the circus, when you worked in the back, you have, like, one of your art projects, the Petting Zoo.

Yeah, I did the Petting Zoo.

Can you.

For our listener, can you share a little bit about the Petting Zoo?

Yeah.

So, you know, I think for the Petting Zoo.

So just for context with the Petting Zoo is so, like, I've mentioned before, you know, I work with faux fur, right.

I make these big faux fur sculptures.

They're very tactile.

And then I invite viewers to come and touch them.

And I've done these setups, installations where I have all my sculptures in one area.

And then I invite the public to pet, groom, brush, love, hug, whatever, touch the faux fur.

Last year, I did the other Art fair with this.

And I mean, it was just thousands of people coming by, touching them, and I was, you know, it was taking a risk.

I was like, good God, what are they gonna do?

You know, drool on it?

They're gonna, you know, lick it.

I don't know.

But it catch bugs on it.

Catch bugs on it.

Right.

I've seen some stuff.

People are disgusting, but it turned out fine.

And it was great to see people interact.

You know, one of the most common feedbacks I got is how soothing they are when touched.

Yeah.

How it kind of relieves anxiety for people.

People would get so into it.

So calming.

But.

Yeah, so my idea behind that was, yeah, I'm definitely have this, like, roots and this more like show business, entertainment world and what it's like to, like, have people actually interact with the work.

I love live entertainment.

And, you know, I.

For a long time, and I still have this dream one day when I'm old, I'm an old lady.

Okay.

And I will.

On a dusty road off the side perhaps of a train yard, Train path, who knows?

I want to have a small little ranch, miniature horses.

That's the dream.

And so I love it.

Roadside attraction.

Yes.

Come on down.

There'd be a rock shop, you know.

So, like, this is giving you practice for that.

So this is the.

Yeah.

So it's like, well, if I, you know, I gotta build it first.

Yeah.

So this is me.

This was my attempt at.

Yeah, yeah.

How did you like interacting, having people interact with your.

With your artwork like that?

I loved it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I loved it.

It was beautiful to see.

You know, at the time, you know, I.

Where I was in the art world, people were talking about play a lot.

Play as a concept for art.

What does that mean?

So I was leaning into this play concept.

Yeah.

But, you know, I've been thinking about that play idea for a while now.

Yes, let's talk about that.

Let's talk about play.

It's such a wild.

It's such a wild.

Everybody and their mama's out here trying to play.

Play.

Be joyful.

Play.

Be joyful.

Celebrate.

Yeah, but definitely play.

Play.

Play.

Yeah.

Play joy.

Play joy.

Play joy.

Play joy.

Play joy.

What does that mean?

Right?

I've been thinking, like, what does that mean?

Okay.

And so I was on that.

I was on that play tip for a little bit, you know, but now I'm like, what does that mean as an artist?

Like, I'm playing make believe, you know, I'm like, playing by myself.

And then, you know, I'm like, no plays out.

Interactivities in.

Okay.

I'm playing with another person that I think is more interesting.

I'm actually very.

I'm quite.

Quite fascinated by game theory these days.

Tell us more.

So let's see.

Like a boy.

Like a.

Like a Nintendo Switch kind of game.

I like video games.

Oh, yeah.

When people say game theory, I think of video games.

Oh, yeah.

Well, yeah, it could be video game.

Video games, but also, like, you know, some.

I didn't realize this, but game theory is also used for military strategy, you know, because you can like, figure out what.

What.

It's like a theory, like, what players will do what.

Based on these statistics, which also.

I have another theory.

Data's out.

Okay, I'm sick of data.

Data.

I'm done with data.

But look at the data.

You don't like when people say that, like, let's just take a look at the data here.

No, I'm done.

I don't want to hear the data.

I heard that.

We don't want to hear.

It don't matter anyway.

Yeah, right.

And so, you know, I'm about feelings.

Okay.

As an artist, I feel like it's about feelings, touch, stuff like that.

But, you know, as you know, Stephanie, I have in my possession a magical crystal Fortune dice.

It's 100 years old.

It's from the Czech Republic.

It's a divination tool.

But it also is more than likely was a party trick for back in the day in the 1920s.

What.

What a time to be alive, you know, And I'm glad I wasn't.

Yeah.

But, yeah, so this idea, you know, and I brought it out recently at our.

I did an artist talk at our studio, and I brought it out for the residents to see.

And, like, you know, I brought out all these little artworks and the thing that reacted the most, because a lot of my artworks are very playful in that way.

But what people loved is playing with the crystal fortune dice and rolling and seeing, you know, asking questions, but also just playing for fun.

And, like, that is what got the crowd wild, you know?

Yeah.

And so I'm, like, interested more of, like, how do you get the crowd wild?

Like, how do you get them eager and excited?

And I like.

I like the divination right now because it's like, you know, we're living in incredibly uncertain times.

This is unprecedented.

Who knows what's going to happen next?

And so I like this idea of future casting.

You know, what are.

You know, like, what.

This is a way of us to make sense of the future.

Yeah.

And that, that's so that's what I mean by interactivity.

Yeah, yeah.

Playful interactivity.

I know.

Who knows what's going to happen next?

What the Lord?

Who knows?

Take a break.

We had to take a break.

So we'll be right back.

Yeah.

See ya.

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We are here with Katie Burrow.

Hey, thank you so much for being here.

It's my honor.

Yeah.

So where were we?

We were discussing.

Where were we?

Worm theory.

No, dad is out.

Dad is out.

Dad is out.

We are sick of that.

No more.

Why do we have to make everything a social science, you know?

Yeah.

Why can't we just like listen to each other?

Listen my.

In my own practice, I really do come from just having a good time.

That's really all I want to know.

It's all from, you know, I really move from people's stories and their experiences.

Yeah.

I'm not referencing a book much.

You know, only if I, I guess I, if I think I need to have some type of reference, some type of data.

But really I just like to go off of the story.

Yeah.

You know, I think that that's what's more important.

So I definitely understand.

And you said you were moving with feelings as well.

You did say that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like feelings.

I, you know, I have, as, you know, I have an interest in mental health also.

Yes, yes, yes.

And so I've developed, I've had a Realization that, you know, I have a lot of friends that are therapists.

I love therapists.

What a group of people, you know, And I was talking to the.

Some of them.

I was talking to one of my friends who's a therapist, and, you know, we're having this discussion of, like, you know, you talk to other people, and it's like, I don't know.

It's just not the same.

It's like, why do artists and therapists get along?

You know, I'm not the only artist that has.

That likes therapists.

And so I think it's because we both.

We both work in the realm of feelings and emotions and, like, depth, you know, depth psychology in a sense.

You know, not that I am not a professional.

Okay.

I am not.

But I am someone that likes to spelunk, you know, in the depths of my mind in that way.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, with your mental health.

I know, like, your last show, you spoke about or with the topic of mental health, not necessarily yours, but you speak about mad.

The word mad.

Yeah.

You know, can you talk about that?

I feel like, is that sort of like taking that word back?

You know, folks would be like, are you mad?

They're mad.

It's like a way to call someone, forgive me, but crazy, you know, like, that's not like a word we use and stuff.

So can you talk about, like, your use of the word mad in your work, of mental health, in your artwork?

Yeah.

What a question.

What a question.

Right?

Here we go.

So I started using the word mad and getting involved with mad studies, the notion of madness.

I got introduced to it actually, the first time in an art history class on the domestic arts.

Who.

I don't know why we were talking about it in that class, but that's when I first started hearing about it.

Oh, that class was pretty disabilities focused.

That's why.

Okay.

But then I got more involved after I heard Matt Beaudet talk, who is the director at the center for Mad Culture here in Chicago.

Okay.

This works out of the Fine Arts Building downtown.

And, you know, he introduced this idea of.

Of, like, the mad identity and what does it mean?

He was speaking from his personal experience, too.

And I was just, like, so profoundly moved about someone talking openly about mental health and it not being this, like, therapy jargon that, like, we hear now.

It's just like, I don't know.

I have a problem with a lot of that just because I feel like it can be used, weaponized against people.

But the idea of madness, mad studies is.

It is a reclaiming term that wants to talk about the strengths of people with mental.

I guess I don't like the term mental illness because to me, I'm like, why am I ill?

You know, I have a chronic condition.

Like, why do I have to be.

Why am I, like, why am I always, like, quote, sick?

And instead thinking is like, actually, you know, this is a strength, you know, and can be for myself, you know, I feel like I have a greater capacity for emotions, and it can be a lot to manage the emotions, the highs and the lows, but I find it exhilarating at times.

But I think for me, my interest in the body of work I recently did is I want to understand what madness has looked like throughout history since the beginning of time.

Before, it was all like, oh, you're insane, you're crazy, you go in an insane asylum.

Lobotomies.

I'm interested in what way before that, you know, I got obsessed with this painting called the Stone of Madness by Hieronymus Bosch, My favorite artist ever Renaissance era painter, who also did the Garden of Earthly Delights.

If you know it, look it up.

It is a trip tick, actually, but.

But it's also a trip.

It is a trip.

Like, whoa, that guy was like, on another level.

It's wild.

But so another painting he did, the Stone of Madness.

So it was like, this is like a contested Renaissance era belief that people that were mad had rocks in their heads.

Okay.

And so the cure for it was to remove the rocks.

And so he did this painting of a quack doctor.

It's a very symbolic painting.

Like a rock off the street.

Like a rock off the street.

Like a rock off the street.

And how would it have gotten in their head?

You know, I don't know.

I don't know.

Fell up anything.

Right?

Fell up their nose or something.

I don't know.

But.

So the painting shows someone having a rock removed.

Like he's digging it out of their skull.

There's another woman that's dressed like a nun.

She's got a book on her head.

She's represents melancholia.

Just feel like it's like the weight.

The weight of knowledge or something.

I don't know.

These are my interpretations.

But so I got obsessed with this idea of having rocks in the head, you know?

And so I started making this body of work which he.

So it's called the Stone of Madness, but also known as the Stone of Folly.

So, you know, folly, foolishness.

Right.

And like, what does that mean?

To be a mad person and be foolish?

Yeah.

And I was.

I was born on April Fool's Day.

Okay.

Look at the Lord.

Look at the Lord.

Look at the Lord.

He knew what he was doing when he made, you know.

Yeah, yeah, that.

Or like, you know, every birthday was kind of a joke, you know.

Oh, Kate, what's Katie up to?

Or like, you know, I remember my.

One of my grade school teachers, like, I brought in cupcakes for my birthday, and she was like, katie, Katie, quit joking around.

You know, it's April Fools.

Okay?

But so that.

That legacy of foolishness has stuck with me.

Okay.

You know, it's led to this, you know, my playful, I guess, soft sculptures of.

And so, you know, I made this series of sculptures that were.

That I were calling my Stones of Folly.

Okay.

And so, you know, this included collecting pebbles from Lake Michigan.

Also, I used some abandoned ceramics that an art student.

I work in higher education, and art students make work, and then they forget about it laying around.

So I grab some of those and then I tattoo them with water decals of different celebrities that celebrities.

Artists and musicians that I had gathered from the nami, national alliance of Mental Illness nonprofit.

Big cor.

Big.

I don't want to call them a corporation.

Big business that helps people.

They do advocacy work, but then also, like, will help host, like, group therapy sessions, whatever.

So they also had a list on there for, like.

It was like, I was looking at their resources.

It's like a list for 300 different celebrities, artists, musicians that have a former mental illness.

And so I got, like.

So, like, I was, like, so fascinated because this is.

This is like, building on my idea of, you know, actually having a mental illness is actually a strength.

It can be a superpower as well.

And so I started collecting different artists, like Dolly Parton, clinical depression.

Who knew.

Yeah.

Who knew Dolly could get sad?

You know, she is.

I mean, she.

She actually is the queen of rhinestones and.

Oh, yeah, bobbles.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But so, you know, I made one dedicated to Dolly, you know, Britney Spears, bipolar, postnatal depression.

Yeah.

She's another, like, magical, complicated diva, you know?

And so I started collecting more this idea of different artists in this way that some are looked at, like, so amazing, but then some.

They're complicated.

And, like, what does that mean, you know, in, like, for example, Richard Simmons, I have his.

As one.

And, you know, he.

How many people did he heal, you know, in his work?

Oh, my gosh.

Yes.

He changed his world and the people in it.

He changed the world.

He changed the world.

I mean.

Yeah, but he suffered from anorexia and it's interesting to think about, like, okay, here's somebody that has touched the center of their own sorrow and then taken that and turned it around and it's used as their strength.

And so that was my idea behind the work.

But, you know, I don't want to make it so much like, oh, okay, you know, now we're all.

It's a pretty bow.

Like, we're not all, you know, it's like, all good.

Richard Simmons.

Amazing.

Right.

But I also want to show, like, it's complicated and confusing.

Yeah.

And, you know, I include it like, Kanye west, whoa, what a guy.

You know, I mean, he's complex and it's not.

It's not always pretty.

Britney Spears.

People make fun of her so much, you know, and so what does this mean?

It's a very layered conversation in that way.

Yeah.

And I like hearing about it because obviously I really enjoy that work with the rocks.

And you have all these, like, you know, rhinestones, and it's very blingy and it's very pretty.

And I love.

I'm very.

Always attracted to, like, bling.

So I love it.

But I think because folks look.

Look to celebrities as people to identify with.

So, like, if you did identify with Britney Spears for, like, whatever reason, you grew up listening to her or whatever, but then to also know this about her, you know, it's just another layer that you may or may not be able to connect with her on.

And that's always good, you know, just like, for people to also have, like, more role models in a way.

Not that necessarily any of these people want to be role models, but, you know, people look for other folks to connect to.

So I think you having that, you know, that list of popular people that folks can identify with, and they'll be like, oh, really?

Like, maybe it'll also make them rethink, like, what they think, you know, mental quote, unquote illness is, you know, that it's not like, look at all these stuff that all these people are doing.

They've accomplished so much, you know, while still managing everything.

So that's.

And that's really great.

Managing the rocks in their head.

Managing the rocks in their head.

Right.

Ask the who rocks in your head.

Like, how do you think I got rocks in my head?

Right.

So ridiculous.

Well, you know, I had some rapid fire questions for you.

I think I.

And I have a little.

Look, I have this theme song that I have for my rapid fire questions.

Let's play it.

Yeah, I want to play it.

I'm always trying to figure out how to work this in there, but it's just ridiculous.

And, you know, with it being our first time here, you, the listener, you could tell me what you think.

So, yeah.

This is our nosy round, so we're gonna play this little song.

Can you hear me as I say this?

Okay.

Get all up in my business, Stephanie.

It is time for a Katie Burrow nosy AF rapid round of questions.

Get in it.

I'm actually scared right now.

You are?

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Okay, standby.

I know the pressure is mounting, so.

Okay.

You know, I'm a big housewives fan.

Yeah.

And you know, housewives have taglines.

Yeah.

I want you.

I was hoping that you think of one of your sculptures and give them a Real Housewives tagline.

Oh, can you give me an example of what, like, a tagline is like.

You know what?

Let's skip that one.

Okay.

You don't know them.

Yeah.

Oh, I know.

Let's start here.

Okay.

You can only save one.

Faux fur or foam?

Which one lives?

Faux fur or phones or foam?

Foam.

Yeah, faux fur.

Okay.

And then another question.

Can you explain?

I know when you salvage, you, like, save a lot of stuff, right?

To hoard.

Yeah.

What's the difference between that and, like, say, people that, like my dig in the garbage kind of thing?

Like, so your stuff is, like.

When you say you salvage, you don't mean, like, digging the garbage.

The difference is bedbugs.

Okay.

Yeah.

And then would you rather wear your own soft sculpture as an outfit to the Met Gala or be the creative director of a Lady Gaga's next tour?

Oh, my God.

Well, I do have a dream.

I do have a dream to be making.

Like, I would love, you know, Chappelle Roan.

If you're out there, if you're listening, I would love to make you a wild and crazy fur fur costume.

Same with you, Lady Gaga.

Whatever you want.

You know, it could be simple.

You know, it could just be some, you know, some fur cuffs, fur shoulder pads, whatever.

Yeah.

And then do you cook?

Now, you were a chef, but do you cook all the time now by yourself or.

I do.

I feel like I.

Yeah, I probably cook.

I mean, I cook dang near.

Excuse me, dang near every.

Every meal for myself.

I like to eat a lot of vegetables and protein.

Okay.

Yeah, it's not that exciting at this point.

It's just like, I like to say, like, I actually eat like a peasant farmhand, you know, so whatever cheap vegetables I can get and some meat to go alongside it.

If what's like your go to studio snack, then.

Studio snack.

Yeah.

Formerly Pop Tarts.

Okay.

Okay.

But now I would say cracking a cold one.

Sugar free pink monster.

That's my favorite.

Also pumpkin seeds.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

And then like, what's your dream?

Art.

Art supply store, collab.

Like, would it be like a Katie and Michaels or Katie's and I mean, they're not RIP they're going out.

Rip.

Joann Fabrics, thank you so much, Joann Fabrics, for all that you've done for us.

Truly, truly a dream and a lifesaver.

God bless.

Yeah.

Joanne.

Joanne.

Yeah.

Personally, Joanne, I'm speaking to you.

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

Me too.

I don't know what the nation's gonna do.

I really don't know.

Yeah.

How are we gonna sew?

I don't know.

So.

Yeah, that.

Okay, so this brings me to my next conclusion, which is I'm trying to bring sewing back.

We can't let it die.

And so, you know, I don't know, working with small businesses, I see a lot of people doing these kind of, you know, small business selling salvaged materials.

Oh, you know what?

Actually test textile discount supply here in Chicago and Pilsen.

Yo.

Blow em up three floors.

Can you get patches there?

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I like patches.

Yeah.

They're like sequin patches, but.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, even better.

Right, Bling.

Right, okay.

Bling.

Bling.

Yeah.

They don't have a textile discount outlet in the burbs, but there's just that one.

But, you know, blow them up, though.

Let's just all start going there, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Have you ever written a song for someone?

No.

And is your bed made right now?

Is that nobody's business?

Yeah.

You know.

No, it's not.

I'm not going to lie.

It isn't usually.

Usually I make my bed, but, uh, you know, not every day.

What's the point?

Yeah, I hear that.

I remember one time on the Oprah show, she had somebody come who was like, you know what, Oprah?

I don't make my bed.

And I encourage other people to not.

Yeah.

And then they.

They followed her around and how she just, like, left stuff out.

She didn't clean stuff right away.

And she's like, you know, life is too hard.

Life is too hard.

It's too much going on right now.

Yeah.

Plus, I got like a cozy home to come back to.

You just slide back in.

That's.

Yeah.

You know, one other.

We had some listener questions.

Oh, yeah.

And I think now it's time to bring this up.

So.

All right.

We had Z, age 14, message and say, hi, Katie.

I love making stuff with old fabric and buttons I find in my grandma's house.

How do you know when something is good enough to be called art?

Or do you just make it and let it be weird?

Mm.

Wow.

Z, shout out to the children.

Yeah.

14 years old.

This is a deep question.

I'm so impressed.

Well, Z, I think, you know, I think for me a long time, I feel like putting together stuff was just an experiment to use fabric, buttons, like little things you find, put it together, think if you call it art, it is art.

You know, I think maybe textile work can get pigeonholed into the craft realm and not thought of as art.

And I don't think that's right.

And so I like to think of what I do.

Often it is like collage work, which, you know, that's another.

What it really could.

You know, this could be another term in the fine art world.

What we say is, okay.

And this is a word I can never say, right?

Assemblage.

Assemblage.

Assemblage.

You know, assemblage.

And so that's like, Z, start using.

The word assemblage, right?

There you go.

Z.

Now it's fine art.

Okay.

Oh, my gosh.

Okay, another question, Jess.

This question is for both of you.

If you had to build an art immersive experience inside a cvs, what aisle would you start in?

Oh, my God.

And what would people have to do to get in the backroom secret exhibit?

Oh, my God.

Backroom secret exhibit.

Oh, my God.

Okay, so immediately.

Immediately my mind goes to.

This is a joke I had when I was like.

Like 16 with my friends.

We always called, you know, the aisle that has, like, all the pads and, like, the depends, and it's got, like the, all the, like, you know, condoms and all that stuff, like, all these things.

And we would call that the uncomfortable aisle.

Okay, so.

So that's.

That's where we're take.

That's the installation, the uncomfortable aisle.

I don't know.

Let's lean into it.

Let's make it, like.

Let's, like.

Let's, like, out of shelter over it, right?

It's a tunnel.

It's a dark tunnel of love.

Okay.

So you walk through the aisle.

What happens at the other side?

There's a boat ride.

Okay.

And it takes you.

It's.

You get in that little raft, and then you go through the back.

The back entrance or the back.

The back stock room, you know, and then it Comes.

Comes back out down the uncomfortable aisle.

The tunnel of uncomfortable love.

The tunnel of reality.

Okay.

Yeah.

Of the tunnel of real love.

That's really good.

That's really good.

You're quick.

I feel like when I saw that question, I thought to myself, you're for sure going for me into the magazine aisle.

And then you have to pick up a magazine and you have to just yell out, pick an article.

Count to three, Pick an article and yell a word from it, like, really loud, as loud as you can in the cvs.

And then you run to the back.

And then I didn't know, like, what would happen after that, but it starts with yelling a word really loud.

Even if it's, like, about, About.

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe we, like, all go in the, like.

Then all of a sudden, you're greeted with, like, everyone that's worked at the store.

Yeah.

Or I was thinking, like, line dancing.

Like, you walk into, like, a room of line dancing.

Yes.

Yeah.

And then you are the lead singer, and you're about, about, about, about, about.

You know, another question that I had, it goes back to snacks.

Yeah.

A favorite snack that we, the listener, the artist, listening, whoever, that they can get at the gas station.

Yes.

Talk about your love.

You love a gas station.

I love a gas station.

And what's a snack?

Yeah.

What's a snack there that we could take to the studio?

Yeah.

Forgot our snack bag.

Boom.

Gotta stop at the local station.

What are we grabbing?

Yeah.

Okay, so first of all, you're gonna grab anything that is wrapped in a homemade baggie.

Okay.

Usually at the register, whatever they got.

That means that's the people that run the gas station.

That's their little treat.

So you do whatever that is.

Grab it.

You know, I've seen sometimes in one gas station, I remember this is in the Southwest, and they would put baggies of pickle juice with a tamarindo candy in it.

Wow.

It was.

Wow, what a flavor explosion.

It was incredible.

So whatever you got in a plastic.

Whatever they're selling homemade in a plastic bag.

Get it?

Whatever that is.

And then my go to.

This is my guilty pleasure.

And so I get a bag of popcorn, whatever they got, like, already, you know, white cheddar, you know, smart food, whatever that.

I don't remember the name.

I doesn't have.

I don't.

You know, give me the cheddar cheese.

I don't want the light stuff.

Okay.

Yeah.

Really go for it.

You like decadence?

I like that.

Yeah.

I like some flavor.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then I grab some candies.

M&M sour gummy, you know, little Reese's.

And then I grab that bag, and then I put the candy in it.

I rip it all up, and then I eat it that way.

And like.

Yeah, so it's.

I'm making my own fancy popcorn bag.

Make your own.

Like.

Yeah, you spend about $30 in the gas station, all those snacks.

Right.

I take my time in there, you.

Know, really hanging out.

I like to peruse spending money.

Jeez.

Oh, and then, you know, again, sugar free monster.

That's.

Or Celsius.

I love a Celsius.

Okay.

I've seen those.

I haven't tried it yet.

Oh, you gotta.

They have vitamins in them.

Okay.

Yeah.

Come on.

My local gas station has pineapple and grapes in there.

Oh.

And dicey strawberries.

I was looking like, wow.

Wow.

Fresh.

Exactly.

I like it.

Yeah.

Keep it fresh.

Yeah.

Healthy lifestyle.

Yeah.

Right.

What do you got coming up next?

What are you gonna be like?

What are you working on?

You thinking about maybe leaving the fur?

You got knee.

You know, like, what are you thinking about now in terms of your artwork?

What's the next move?

Yeah.

Okay, so one thing.

So I'm obsessed with this idea of talking in code lately.

Okay.

And, like, acts of subversion via fiber art.

You know, the fiber art, sewing has a long history of, you know, women talking to each other without actually using words.

And so, you know, I've heard this quote, men's history was written with a pen.

Women's was written with a needle.

And so I love this idea of speaking to each other, particularly in a time where censorship is getting worse and worse, especially on social media.

Meta.

I'm after you.

Okay.

I'm after you.

And so I'm coming.

Right?

And so, you know, I'm really curious right now.

I recently remixed, I wrote a poem with quilt blocks.

And so quilt blocks, you know, long American tradition of.

They all have different names, right?

Like, there's one, I got into the drunkard's path.

You know, that's a quilt block style.

Or flying bats, night and day and storm at sea.

That's another one.

Thunder and lightning.

And so using these as a way to communicate, writing poems through quilts, quilt names.

And then, you know, moreover, just like, incorporating more symbols, you know, in that way, probably some worms, you know, I don't know.

And so, yeah, using artwork as a way to speak to each other without blatantly using words as a way to continue to talk to each other with free expression.

That's what I'm interested in.

Yeah.

And that even Makes more sense to why it's like get back to sewing so people can start to figure out ways to communicate with each other.

Yeah, yeah.

Not to mention, you know, like there's always been sewing circles of women.

Yeah.

You know, it's a very community act.

You can.

So that way it's.

And it can often be a, a free, a safe space that way.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I would love to learn to sew.

I don't know how.

And I remember I was at a party and a lady was leaving to say, oh, I got to go get my jeans tailored.

And another person.

So like, you're gonna go pay for that.

That's so easy.

Right.

And then they too are like, we gotta start teaching people to sew.

Because it's just so.

It's so easy.

Yeah.

People don't know like such a simple skill.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, it's, you know, it's one of those skills that like it's passed down between generations.

Right.

And part of.

So, you know, this is with a lot of craft based stuff.

Like you can't learn this by reading about it.

This is called tacit knowledge.

What that means is it's something that you watch another person do and you watch how their hands move.

And so that way you can learn how to move your hands too in the right way.

So I think that's so beautiful about sewing is it is an act of care that is passed down by another person.

So they are teaching you it that way.

I just, I think that's.

That's a beautiful thing.

Yeah, that's really a beautiful thing.

I look forward to.

I hope you start having sewing circles.

I want to come.

You know, I want to actually.

Yeah, I'll let you know.

Okay.

Yeah.

And do you by chance say affirmations?

I do, yeah.

Let's see.

I got an affirmation.

I was going to ask if you can like give.

Yeah, let's see.

What.

Give us one or two that we can start to say.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, what.

One of my main ones that I say, I have it written on my, my vanity mirror every morning, but it says, I am joyful, I am safe.

Okay.

Okay.

So I say that one.

I have this.

So I have this affirmation app on my phone.

I'm looking at it right now.

So it's always.

It's just like spitting them out to me every time I look.

This is what it says right now.

I just, I'll read it.

And it just helps me like have these reminders.

Here's, you know, I'm Allowed to have days that feel better and days that feel worse.

You know, just have these simple reminders, you know, I like.

Another one I like, I say is, I am successful in my career.

I love.

You know, just keep repeating it until you believe it.

Yeah, yeah.

Fake it till you make it.

Right, right.

What if there was an affirmation that says, I am not playful and I do not do data.

I don't play.

Yeah, I don't do data.

Yep.

I don't play.

I'm not playing.

I don't do data.

Yeah, yeah.

I love affirmations.

I think, you know, at first they were, like.

They came off as cheesy.

But I feel like as people are, like, because of the world, they're trying to, like, do more things to infuse, not play, but happiness, more joyfulness.

You know, affirmations.

Do that.

And like, I've been asking people, do you do affirmations?

People are like, yeah, actually, I've learned that people, they will take their clothes out the night before.

Do you do that?

No.

Before you get dressed?

Yeah.

People that.

They take their clothes out the night before and they say affirmations.

That's what they do.

So they, like, set the clothes out and then they give it an affirmation.

So then you, like, are putting on the clothes.

You are saying your affirmation in that way.

No, like, they'll.

Oh, sorry.

They'll, like, set their clothes out the night before the next day of what they're gonna do.

And so when they.

After they get dressed, they already know what they're gonna wear.

Then they say their affirmation.

And so they are, like, prepared.

Wow.

Yeah.

That.

That's a type A personality right there.

Yeah.

I wonder.

I.

You know me as a fluctuating type A.

Type B.

Leaning towards type B.

You know, every morning I get up and I feel the vibes.

Right.

I've never heard of type B.

Actually, I always.

People call themselves type A, but I never thought about another type.

Oh, yeah.

People are always like, oh, I'm so type A.

I'm so type A.

Type B.

Type B is like, you're the more relaxed one.

You know, you don't go as hard on the spreadsheets.

Oh, I don't know which one I would be.

I think I'm a fluctuator then, because I love a spreadsheet.

I think that if you're both, I think it's type C.

I don't know, though.

I can't remember.

You know, I really appreciate you being here.

Thank you.

This is like, yeah.

I hope Chicago is happy.

Yeah, me, too.

I love you, Chicago.

I love you, too.

I love you.

Well, for more information on Katie Burrell's work, please go to KatieBrill.com.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's B, U, double R, I, double l, burl.com.

and then, you know, I'm, you know, I got.

I got an Instagram at.

Yes, Katie.

C, A, T, I, E, too.

Okay, perfect.

Thank you all for being here.

Thank you so much for listening to Nosy af.

I'm so happy.

Again, I'm Stephanie.